Rocky Marciano Film Study

Ali against Trevor Berbick was a shadow of a mummy. Tyson against Mcbride was a shadow of a mummy.

Joe Louis was the number one rated fighter. He’s not “JoeLouis” anymore, but he’s not the shadow of a mummy of a duplicated Joe Louis by a long stretch.

A number one contender, the favourite to win the fight, is as good an opponent than many champions beat on the way to the title.

There have been weaker world champions than the 1951 version of Joe Louis.

You can’t say that about shadows of mummy’s.. it’s mumbo jumbo

 

He had been recovering from eye surgery and out of the ring for a year when he fought Charles. As a result of that fight, he was apparently blind in one eye when he fought Louis:

"Valentino’s legacy as a Bay Area celebrity was enhanced greatly by his gallant effort, but his next ring appearance, an exhibition against the great Joe Louis in Chicago, would be his last.

It took place seven weeks after the loss to Charles, was scheduled for 10 rounds, and was also remembered for its all-out action. Once again, Valentino was stopped in the eighth round but was paid $10,000.

“My manager kept telling me to go easy on him,” recalled Valentino. “I would say, ‘What do you mean go easy on him, it’s a fight isn’t it?’ I wound up listening to him anyway, and for the first three rounds I’m doing what I was asked, trying not to hurt Louis.

“Louis hit like hell, and he’s whacking me all over the place. Finally, in the third round I went after him, hit him in the body with some pretty good shots. I come back to my corner and Andrade says, ‘What are you doing, trying to knock out this guy?’ At that point I got so mad I called him an SOB, the first time I ever said that to his face, even though that’s what he was for a long time.”

What nobody except Valentino and Andrade knew was that Valentino had gone into the Louis exhibition completely blind in his right eye.

“During the eye test at the weigh-in, I brought my right hand over my right eye and read the chart with my good eye,” recounted Valentino. “Then I used my left hand to cover my right eye and nobody noticed.”

The eye had originally been injured in the first of three Bay Area ethnic turf battles with Tony Bosnich. While Valentino was a full-blooded Italian, Bosnich was of Slovenian descent. Their first bout was declared a draw in the first round when Bosnich opened a deep gash on Valentino’s eye with a head butt."

 

So Pat was blind in one eye for the Charles fight too? Valentino fought well against Charles though. Imagine what he could have done with two eyes? Seven weeks later, after his best fight, a title chance, presumably going straight into training he fights just as well against Joe Louis.

Leaving the story about bad eyes aside and viewing the film on face value of both Charles and Louis I am not seeing a withered, recovering from eye surgery, shot fighter. The films are not showing me this. I’m not saying he didn’t have a bad eye. Harry Greb and Joe Frazier had bad eyes.

If you need this story rather than the film itself of both Valentino fights it is not enough. Watching those fights, using only the film as evidence, there is no example of Pat being a bad fighter is There?

 

Louis was diminished but certainly not to the extent Tyson and especially Ali were.

 

No ,you can make a case his manager was leery of putting him in with Valdes though .

 

Anyone suggesting Louis could still apply his full power in his last few fights is either guilty of wishful thinking or being economical with the truth,his reflexes had eroded significantly as his results indicate.

 

"Linguini and Clam Sauce killed more Italians than all the wars."

 

Joe's right hand was gone. I think Rocky even commented on this after the fight. He said it was "nothing ". Common sense would lead one to believe that Louis wasn' healthy besides being 37 years old.

 

who is implying anything other than Joe Louis was still a legitimate number one contender who had knocked out rated men?

 

Well Louis put Agramante on his ass for a 9 count with his right hand just months before he fought Rocky.

Watching those comeback films, joe clearly could not get his right hand off quite as quickly as he could when he was younger, but he was still using it and knocking guys down with it.

“The Associated Press reported: "It was strictly a one-sided battle all the way as Louis snapped Savold's head back with jarring left jabs and belted him to the head and body with short rights and uppercuts. He put away Savold with a right to the body and as beautiful a left hook to the jaw as you will ever see."

Louis had slowed down, the opponents were getting tougher but that’s normal. There have been weaker world champions than the 1951 version of Joe Louis. In fact, Louis did beat a reigning title claimant on his comeback!

 

What was Louis record in his last ten fights? Wasn't he still beating top ten contneders? Past his best for sure, but he still had a decent jab. Hardly a shadow of mummy. IMO Louis had more vs Marciano than Ali did vs Holmes.

 

A young prime bull like Rocky pushing around a shopworn old opponent who would have preferred to be retired, who was only in it for a paycheck and afterward would retire because he was so shopworn even tho he still owed huge sums of money really proves very little. Joe may not have been the Ali of the Berbick fight but neither was he close to being the Liston of the Martin fight.

 

If I make a training video using a montage of Holmes clips from the Ali fight would you be impressed?

 

Well he put Agramante on his ass with his right hand the same year he fought Rocky.

Watching those comeback films, joe clearly could not get his right hand off quite as quickly as he could when he was younger, but he was still using it and knocking guys down with it.




“The Associated Press reported: "It was strictly a one-sided battle all the way as Louis snapped Savold's head back with jarring left jabs and belted him to the head and body with short rights and uppercuts.“

Louis had slowed down, the opponents were getting tougher but that’s normal.

 

Great example of how to fight on the inside against a bigger man. Shame that today the bigger man would just get to clinch or put you in a headlock if you tried that, refereeing being what it is.