Rocky Marciano has a very good case for #1...

New York Times March 14, 1947

Boston (AP)--Johnny Shkor, towering Boston heavyweight, weathered a furious storm to gain an upset eight-round knockout over Tami Mauriello of New York, rated just below Joe Lous, in their scheduled 10 round feature bout tonight at the Arena.


New York Times March 16, 1947

Boston (UPI)--Promtoter Anthony (Rip) Valenti of the Goodman A C today announced that he had offered heavyweight champion Joe Louis $100,000 or 40% of the gate to stake his title against Johnny Shkor of Boston here this summer.
Valenti asserted that Shkor earned the title bid as a result of an 8th round technical knockout over Tami Mauriello of New York in a riotous bout last night. Mauriello had been carded as the #1 contender, despite the one-round knockout suffered at the hands of the Brown Bomber last fall.

 

O .F ,have you a source that shows Shkor as a rated fighter I have never seen one ?

 

Only what could be a failing memory of one of those old Ring Magazine lists when they give the ratings for a given month.

Shkor was never rated in the yearly ratings.

 

Good Post and great logic, not one that swims with the tide but factual

 

your comparisons are crap. ali won the title as a youngster and after only 20 fights. lets compare that with rocky LOL. get fukin real. ali had more defences of the title than rocky when he was only 25 years old and then stripped of the title. ali fights were against better opposition. rocky was fighting tomatoe cans for his first 30 fights. Ali was fighting title championship fights when the rock was only dreaming about it.

 

I don't agree. Marciano barely fought past his prime, when Ali fought past his he beat two top 10 heavyweights, regained the title and defended it several times against good opposition. Ali beat better opposition during his second career, even after having diminished from three years away from the game, than Marciano did in his entire career. He beat more good/great fighters, he beat more fighters in general and he made more defenses. Same with Joe Louis. Ali and Louis' losses both came against ATG opposition at the top of their game when they themselves were not 100%. Marciano never even fought someone as good as Schmeling was on the night he beat Louis, or Frazier when he beat Ali. I don't rate Marciano highly because I don't care about him being undefeated, it doesn't matter, what matters is who he beat and how he did it. Louis and Ali both beat better fighters and in more impressive fashion.

 

Top 3, maybe: but best ever is a big stretch.

 

I have Ring Magazines back to when Walcott was Champ ,I'll have to go through them.

 

Ali fought way past his prime Marciano did not.If Marciano took 3 1/2 years off and came back to meet Patterson how would he do? Lastarza was moved very well by his Manager,he had good ,but not great wins over Cesar Brion and Dan BUcceroni and a split dec over Rex Layne,conspicuous by their absence on his record, are wins over the top black fighters of the period .Lastarza would have been Champ if Marciano never existed ONLY if he continued to avoid these men.Where in any post has someone suggested that Marciano met only chumps? What has been stated is that his best defences as Champion were over a man 38 , a former LH who was nearly 33 ,a LH who was 38 or 40 depending on if you beleived him or his Mother .All these men were a bit past their prime , two of them dropped him , and he was in danger of being tkod by the other .Marciano beat what was around,,mostly,I think he would have beaten Valdes too ,but we don't know for sure .Ali during his first reign eclipsed every challenger ,and he went into there backyards to do it. In his later reigns he kod BIG POWERFUL heavyweights who were ranked.Marciano did not.

 

Now you're making more sense.

But you're forgetting one thing when comparing with Ali. His losses all came after a 3,5 year exile. Before the exile he was (as you know) undefeated, and had probably beaten almost as many ranked opponents as Marciano did in his career. And he had twice beaten an opponent that was considered invincible before Ali beat him.

It's very possible that Ali's achievements before the exile measures up to Marciano's whole career. He was 29-0-0 (with 23 KO's, which is impressive for a boxer like him) and had easily dominated fighters like Liston, Patterson, Terrell etc.

If you then add what Ali did after coming back from an exile that stole his best years and some of his physical assets...

But I agree with you that Marciano gets sold short sometimes. You can only beat those that are around to be beat, and he did that. Probably my nr. 3 HW.

 

This I find highly unlikely. Such a lay-off would have lessened Rocky's stamina, dulled his timing and reflexes etc. Under these conditions no one has an easy time against a peak Frazier IMO. I would be surprised if Rocky lasted the distance.

 

I think Marciano is often underrated. He KTFO Louis. Was Lewis' chin much worse because he was older? I think if you asked Joe Louis he would tell you that the Rock was one very tough fighter. If he was totally honest, he might even admit that he would have found it tough to beat him on any day.

I think Marciano can be overrated, after all how does he take a shot from prime Tyson, Foreman or even Wlad given that he was smaller than those guys?

In the end it is all extrapolation and we can not be sure. However, when I watch those old fights of Marciano, it is hard to tell if someone has been rocked with a prior punch. Marciano just seems to throw a couple of shots that land and then suddenly his opponent is on the ground. Are these one punch KOs or are they accumulation?

If he is really KTFO these guys with one or two punches, I would start to lay claim that he is #1. After all, who can KO the Rock? Assuming that it will be hard for Foreman, Tyson, Wlad and the rest of the big punchers to land cleanly (Rock's head movement and relentless pressure) then he is going to KO any of those guys. Imagine Rock connecting with Wlad. He might need a step ladder to do it, but if he did Wlad wouldn't wake up for a while.

I think it all depends on whether the Rock's chin could take the big punches from the biggest punchers. If so, he is #1 because he can KO almost anyone in history. Reminder: his chin is considered granite.

We need no argument about his stamina.

 

Maxomer,


I think Walcott was better than schmeling, including the schmeling of that fight. Walcott fought brilliantly too.

 

I am not a Marciano detractor ,neither do I think he was Superman.In claiming Marciano's best wins were over Layne and Mathews I think you will stand alone.Lastarza not only failed to fight Champions Charles and Walcott,he failed to fight Baker ,Satterfield,Gilliam,Valdes,Henry,Wallace .Idon't take my information from ESPN ,and object to being referred to as ignorant ,especially by a Fan Boy who made spurious claims about opponents being 220 lbs and didnt have the courtesy to admit he was wrong.I take my information about Marciano from films of his fights against Layne,Mathews Walcott x2 ,Charles x2 Moore , and Cockell,also clips from earlier fights .Plus Ring magazine reports of the fights as they happened ,and several books on the man ,also the fact that I lived through his reign .Not because I have an Italian name and am biased in his favour.MARCiANO NEVER PROVED HIMSELF AGAINST BIG RATED HEAVYWEIGHTS IN THEIR PRIME,I made that statement and I stand by it,the nearest he came to it was a 214lbs 36 year old Louis who was clearly no longer the" Brown Bomber".

 

Walcott was a fighter if he was around in the 60's and 70's...he would have caused a lot of problems for the Foremans, Lyles and Shaver types. If Jimmy Young handled all of them and he was a guy who had no power, Walcott was much better than Young...Young even Closed Ali...what would Walcott or Charles have done to them...Old ...Walcott was a late bloomer but take that version of JJ and put him in the 70's and watch out boys