Rocky Marciano hit harder than Sonny Liston

Here is a piece with Goldman talking about Marciano's punching power and compares him to Frank Moran, who was also a very hard puncher and knocked a lot of opponents out.

Ballyhoo for fights usually calls for a few new "mysterious" punches but take it from the camp of Rocky Marciano, the Brockton Bomber, there will be no secret punches for what he hopes will be the knock out of Joe Louis in the Polo Grounds on Thursday, October 11.

In fact, if the former heavyweight champion is interested Rocky will draw a diagram of his "ace-in-the-hole" punch then dare the aging Brown Bomber to do something about it.

Rocky's pay-off punch, the blow that felled Rex Layne and 31 other hapless ring foes is something used every day by lumberjacks hacking away at giant redwood trees, or "guests of the state" making big ones into little ones on a rock pile. It is a sledge hammer blow, pure and simple, and awesome and devastating in those on the receiving end.

"Rock throws his sledge hammer punch naturally." explains wily little Charley Goldman, one of the brainiest and most conniving svengalis in the history of boxing "so why try to change him."

"My theory in working with a fighter is to try to bring out his natural characteristics, not change him into an ersatz puncher. A real fighter, the finished product, fights by instinct.

If he must stop and think, he is lost once the going gets tough, as it is sure to be against Louis.

"That's why I encourage Rocky to keep perfecting his sledge hammer punch. Few fighters could throw it. When Frank Moran did it, it was called his 'Mary Ann' and it put more guys to sleep than one of them old time movies on television."

Size of the rival makes no difference. His opponents have ranged from average-sized 180-pound-ers to as big as Pat Connolly 220 and 6 feet, 4 inches. Louis is 6 feet, 2 inches tall. "He's a natural." says Goldman. "Puncher, dead game and always trying to improve himself."

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Its not just Marcianos weight its the size of his opponents. Old Louis was his biggest title level opponent by quite a bit it took him 8 rounds to knock Louis down. Marcianos power at HW was only exceptional in the confines of his era. There is nothing suggesting his power was historic which Listons was. He did not knock out some bigger guys at the lower levels but all the smaller power guys can do that. Most of the heavier HWs he knocked out are so irelevant boxing rec doesn't have their heights.

KO rate is the percentage of defeated opponents a fighter knockouts it doesn't reflect how big or difficult to knock out those opponents were. It also doesn't reflect how long it takes a fighter to knockout an opponent.

The reason Listons KO rate is so slow is because he had 9 decision wins in his first 21 wins. After this he only failed to get the knockout two more times in 38 fights and his rate jumped from 57% to 78%. Normally a KO rate starts at or near 100% and plummets when a fighter reaches the elite level. The opposite happened here in part cause Liston was facing semi elites like Marshall and Summerlin pretty early. This is also one of the holes in the "Liston was born before 1933" theory.

Reach isn't everything because the P4P best hitters power doesn't come from swinging huge arms but Marcianos reach is 68 barely bigger than Manny Pacquiao while Liston is on the other side of the spectrum with a Tyson Fury reach. Fitz's is 71 but he's a 1/1 whose power could effect anyone regardless how much he weighed. Tysons was 71 and had to add another nearly 40 pounds to make the biggest HWs feel his power. Goddards was 73, Langford was 74. Shavers despite being 6 ft tall had a 79 inch reach. Theres big hitters on the lower end of the spectrum but hes at the very bottom at least for HWs.

 

Excellent post aside from this "This is also one of the holes in the "Liston was born before 1933" theory."

 

Amazing that a talent like Liston drew only 181 paying customers in a city the size of Chicago. Granted, he wasn't a big name yet, but still . . Also interesting that he didn't feel confident enough to take Patterson on in 1958. I think he felt ready after twice kayoing Cleveland Williams.

 

Credit where credit is due, Marciano holds the fastest ko over Louis and is only one of two people to knock Joe out. Considering Louis' opposition, that is one of Marciano's greatest feats.

 

It's ridiculous for anyone to dispute Marciano's punching power. You can say anything you want but the evidence is clear for anyone with eyes.

 

Wonderful Charley Goldman quote here about Frank Moran. I like the way fight people talked in those days. These old trainers and managers were a gold mine if you were a reporter. A.J. Liebling recognized that and turned it into timeless literature.

 

Give it a rest you idiot.

 

Usually the heavier guy has a considerable advantage in how hard he hits. So on the face of it Liston ought to be a harder hitter. However, style does come into it. Liston did not fight the same as Marciano. Part of the reason Rocky looks bad in footage is because he really threw the kitchen sink into every punch, losing his balance in some cases. Liston boxed more correctly. So I'd say that while its impossible to really claim whether one guy hit harder than the other, Marciano certainly hits harder P4P and the OP may even be right simply due to the amount of effort Marciano put into hitting hard. Of course this all comes at a price as we know.

 

Lastarza had surgery to remove bone chips from his elbows that were not the result of Marciano fights.Source Ring interview with Lastarza.

Savold was washed up.
Cockell had been floored multiple times and stopped by many fighters including middleweight Randy Turpin,and lhy Jimmy Slade ,neither needed 9 rounds to get rid of him,nor a 16 foot ring,to stop him moving around.
Marciano met many men at the end of their careers having their last fights,hence their retirements after fighting him.
Louis37 ,Savold, Walcott 38 etc.
Neither Charles,Moore.Cockell,Layne,or Lastarza ,named Marciano as the heaviest puncher they faced.

 

Fighters are regrettably sometimes permanently injured,that does not necessarily indicate that their opponent had extraordinary power.
Williams had not yet matured into the fighter he became.
Louis had been kept away from punchers during his comeback,and no longer was able to use his once vaunted power,his reflexes were eroded to the extent that he relied on his jab and an occasional hook.
Whitehurst is by no means an Applegate equivalent,and in their second fight Liston knocked him out of the ring in the last round,he was saved from a ko by the last bell ringing whilst he was in the process of trying to get back in.
Machen ran away from Liston and made no attempt to win.
Ingo caught him cold ,and the Swede refused to honour a rematch,perhaps the result might have been different second time around.
Wepner didn't legitimately floor Ali he hit him in the chest whilst standing on his foot.To try and use this in argument is absurd.

I give Marciano credit ,what I don't do is buy into the fan boy hyperbole about him.

 

Twenty of Marciano's ko victims were under 190lbs,5 under 180lbs.

 

Name the 13 men he retired.