Rocky Marciano is the most overrated HW besides the Klitschkos

Rocky Marciano isn't overrated.

He's at where he's at: One of the best fighters of all-time regardless of time/weight class.

and if any of you knuckleheads think you can do better, go on, go become a heavyweight fighter and actually try to get 49-0 with 43 kos.

 

Really? Well then, let's put them in context.

Ali's best wins are Liston and Foreman. Liston was about 40 years old when he fought Ali, according to Liston's biographer Paul Gallender. Liston himself said this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwMZZl_AWFU&list=UUuzR5x7DmbajJMvJtiZOeHw

Foreman was a one-dimensional slugger with no defense, later exposed by journeyman Jimmy Young.

Marciano's best two wins are Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles. Walcott was the reigning champion at age 38, but was at the peak of his powers. Charles was 33 and still in great shape, as you can see by the great speed and stamina he displayed in the 15-round fight.

What other wins does Ali have? A shot, punch-drunk Joe Frazier? Prime Frazier made Ali look ordinary. Ken Norton? Ali never beat Norton. Glass-jawed Floyd Patterson, who waited for Marciano to retire before he moved up to heavyweight?

And yes, Ali did fight old men. He fought Archie Moore in 1962, when Moore was 46 years old. Marciano fought Moore when Moore was 39 (the oldest opponent Marciano ever fought). The difference is that Ali gloated and danced with his hands raised when the old man was on the canvas, to humiliate him. Marciano never did that because 1) he had class and 2) he never fought anyone in his forties.

Marciano also beat 37-year-old Joe Louis, who was on an 8-fight winning streak against high-ranking contenders after losing to Charles on points. Louis was the best out there, and was the betting favorite to beat Marciano.

Marciano also beat top contenders Rex Layne and Roland LaStarza, who probably would have become champions if Marciano hadn't existed (Layne had a win over Walcott and LaStarza had a win over Layne).

The point is, Marciano achieved the best result possible in a weak division: an undefeated record. Ali achieved good results but he had 2 losses. Anyone who says Ali's slow, fat, plodding opponents were better than the fast, skillful guys Marciano had to fight are just drinking the Kool-Aid that Ali himself served everyone through TV interviews for so many years.

 

Very interesting analogy Beatle. While I think you're a little harsh on Ali I do believe Ali used the medium of TV better than any athlete ever for self promotion and the media loved it-drinking the kool aid ad nauseum. To the point where people today believe he was invincible where in fact many fighters gave Ali trouble. Doug Jones, Cooper should of won by DQ because Ali used Smelling salts. Norton could of gotten both close calls aginst Ali and Jimmy Young was flat out robbed.

 

'Overrated' is just another word to describe disdain for something popular and enjoyed by a majority.

 

post of the month:good

 

I think that Marciano is generally rated accurately in terms of his resume. There is not much to criticise as far as it goes, and most people acknowledge this.

I think that he gets somewhat under rated head to head, for the same reasons that he was during his own era. People look at what he was on paper, and perhaps overlook the fact that he consistently exceeded expectations.

The message eventually sunk in among observers who were contemporaneous with him, but as they have aged and died, the significance of his intangibles and subtleties has been lost.

 

Case study of what this forum has devolved into.

No nothings asswipes who can't talk of anything but a couple heavyweights for who they carry a weird grudge. This is far more a plea of therapy than an intellectual debate.

 

i agree with Thread starter about marciano

 

Jack Johnson is if anything, more overrated than Rocky... Rocky fighting Ezzard was fair, Ezzard was 31, far from the "old man" you described... Who did Jack Johnson beat who was a worthy opponent? JJ almost exclusively fought short middleweights and ancient relics occasionally fighting a very green opponent near his size. He ducked almost every top contender (sam langford, McVea, Jeanette) after gaining heavyweight, of course the common retort is "He fought them before" but literally every instance they fought, they were green and considerably lighter (a teenaged McVea and Jeanette?). Once he was beaten by Jess, his ego showed by claiming a fix.... Johnson was no top Heavyweight, he usually makes lists only due to his social impact.

 

You need to do a lot more research into Jack Johnson's resume, because you are way off the mark here!

 

The Klitschkos are rated just about right in this forum. Elite super heavyweights who would be a difficult night for any ATG H2H. However resume wise the just don't crack the top 3, maybe even top 5

 

So often, during Rocky's career, I heard the same arguments against him that are seen on this forum today. I had a neighbor who was so sure that Rocky was a crude brawling bum of a fighter that he wanted to take out a mortgage on his paid for home and bet it all on Joe Louis against Rocky. He was positive that even an old Joe Louis could "easily hand Rocky his butt and expose him as the novice short armed pretender that he was." His wife and I talked him out of it. People can say what they will about Marciano, but Rocky was something special.

 

Hope your friend got you a beer after lol

 

Marciano is still a deserving member of the hall of fame, in no universe should he be considered as a B level fighter.
He is still the man Who fought and beat the best of his era, still has the right to be called the only undefeated heavyweight champion, the only undisputed champion, at any weight classes to have retired undefeated.
And his performances warrant the elite status.

 

He is elite, the only reason i question his status among the greats is because he was a light heavy — cruiserweight sized fighter. Not sure how he'd deal with the SHWs of today. Ali and Holyfield however were over 200 pounds and fought skilled big men like Bugner, Mathis, Bowe, Lewis and a grandpa Holyfield got robbed against Valuev. Valuev isn't really a good fighter but he won a title at least and again, Holyfield was old as hell