Rocky Marciano The best of all

So,so true to all you stated above.:good

 

Which fighters managed to put Rocky on the canvas, what stage of their careers were they in and how do they compare to a Liston, Lewis or Holmes? Not to mention that Rocky would literally be marching straight into those jabs, which effectively packed enough punch on their own to lay HWs out.

 

were you on the ground for that fight Burt? was there suspicious betting or anything like that?

 

I can see how Liston and Foreman might be too much for Rocky, possibly even get him out early, but I think Marciano would beat Ali.

Styles make fights.

 

Well, Liston never faced someone as good as Marciano using his size disadvantage as an advantage either. That´s a weak argument.

None of those guys fought a fighter as good as Rocky in fighting small. And yeah, that can be an advantage. And those fighters who knocked ocky down, not that he eve was hurt, were all far more trickier and faster fighters than the ones you mentioned. And if you think Rocky would just march into the jabs of those guys you´d be terribly wrong. Those guys may beat Rocky but picking them because they are bigger is stupid.

 

I'm not picking them because they're bigger. Believe it or not, Marciano is one of my favorite fighters of all-time if only because I'm drawn and am partial to his shorter, stocky frame. Holmes and Lewis, in addition to being much bigger and possessing ATG jabs are two of the greatest technically skilled fighters in division history. Marciano is not. He had loads of heart, chin, power, durability and I'd give him a fair chance, but I can't say he'd objectively march through them. Even Liston is somewhat underrated in terms of skill, and he"s widely classified as a brawler. I think Ali is able to evade his attack and not allow him to cut off the ring so easily, I see his hand speed playing a huge role. I don't feel however, nearly as strong about Ali beating Marciano as I do the former three.

Against other swarmer types, SuzieQ has commented Marciano is on at least equal ground with Frazier and Dempsey, and I'll gladly concur. Against Mike?? Eh, hard not to see Rocky getting beaten to the punch consistently even though he'd land some tremendous body blows even if Tyson can duck and slip effectively through the first few rounds. The thing with Mike is that he always seemed to have ridiculous head movement early in fights, but if they went past the first couple of rounds he'd become a lot more hittable, at least IMO.

All this stuff is ultimately junk and opinion, it's fun though.

 

Marciano was a great fighter in his time, but head to head..? He gets blasted out by Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali would probably end his career due to taking him apart so bad, over a duration of time.

 

Rocky is incredibly likeable not just in his fighting style but his personality & image. I saw Rocky narrate the first fight but not the second one. I like how he's humble and credits his opponent work even within his own narration. It doesn't come off as a self-flattering exercise. Thanks for the upload.

 

Marciano is one of the greatest HW's in ring history without question, but I'm not ready to say he was the greatest of them all, especially if we're talking head to head. I think some of the bigger more mobile HW's that came after him would beat him. Ali and Holmes of course come to mind. Taller, faster with a substantial reach advantage and 2 of the best jabs in the history of the HW division would probably be too much for the Rock. Against Ali Rocky's only chance is to knock him out. Let's face it, he's not going to outbox Ali to a decision and Ali had one of the best chins in the divisions history. What I see happening is Ali staying on the move and using his jab to keep Rocky off balance while Marciano lunges at Ali to no avail. That 68 inch reach will prove to be a big disadvantage against Ali's 80 inch reach...and Holmes' for that matter. Larry and Ali would have the luxury of landing from afar...sort of like a dive bomber vs a tank. Rocky just doesn't have the dimensions or the speed to cope with a prime Ali or Holmes. He was accustomed to fighting men who were roughly his own size, give or take a few pounds and inches.Size does matter if you're good and Ali and Holmes were good...very good at thier best. Nor do I think he would've beaten a prime Louis or maybe even Dempsey (Dempsey/Marciano...Can you imagine the brawl that would be!). I'm not trying to denigrate Rocky at all. He would be hell for almost any HW that ever lived. But To say he's the greatest is a sretch. Certain HW's would have his number from a style perspective...Which applies to any of the great HW champs.

 

sullivan would destroy marciano H2H.

though i dont see anyone else capable of beating him.

 

Marciano went 12-0 with 12 knockouts against men above 200lb

 

A few points. Lewis is not one of the best technically skilled fightes in the divisions histoy. Quite a bit from it, he makes far too many mistakes. He may be one o even the best technical super-hw but that´s it. Lewis also has a problem in this fight. And that´s his size. Marciano in addition to beeing small would fight small. For Lewis to jab and punch him he would have to punch downwards - which would take snap out of his punches, make them easier to see and easier to avoid - and he would have to lean forward - which would put him off-balance and negate most of his reach advantage. Additionally, his size would make him tire much quicker than Marciano does, and Rocky would make him work for every second of evey round. And then Lewis had the tendency to play it saver against smaller opponents, he wouldn´t got out and try to take Marciano´s head of, he would do what he did to Tua, try to box him. Not going to happen. Marciano wouldn´t go in a shell, beeing happy about surviving, he would ty all the time and make Lewis move and work much, much more than he would want to, tire him out and stop him in the championship rounds. Marciano (T)KO13-15.

Holmes has the best chance of those three. Because he has the right mix of speed, power, skill and spirit. If you hurt Holmes you are in deep trouble that´s when he fights the best. And that´s what would make this fight so exciting and close. This would go to the cards and I don´t know who would be up but it definitly would be close. Holmes won´t keep Marciano just away and dance away, he´s not fleet footed enough and Rocky is too good at cutting and catching. And Holmes is vulnerable to the right, Rocky´s greatest weapon. This is an extremely tight fight. Can´t pick a winner, probably go with Holmes based on him beeing able to fight himself out of trouble when hurt. Holmes SD or MD.

Liston has the jab and uppercut to cause ocky problems that´s true. But, and that´s a big but, he doesn´t have the spirit of Holmes and like Louis has the trouble of lacking stamina. How often did he go the distance? And how much did he have to work in the ring there? That´s a good indication of what would happen if Liston is not doing a Patterson on Marciano. Rocky would take him into very deep water in the midrounds and drown him late - if Sonny isn´t quitting before. But Liston has a chance of getting Rocky early but I don´t think it´s very likely. Liston is quite slow and I see two problems for him there due to that one is that I doubt Liston will knock out Rocky with one punch - he couldn´t even do that to Patterson - and two he is too slow to land combinations often enough to stop Rocky. Marciano (T)KO 10-13.

To the rest, I think Dempsey and Tyson get to Rocky early. Both have the combination of speed, power and explosiveness to continuesly land combinations on him and take him out. IMO that´s the most likely outcome. If that doesn´t happen Rocky either knocks them out or wins a decision.
Frazier is different. That´s a war of attrition. Nobody beats Rocky there. Look how Frazier looked in his best fight - FotC - and then imagine Rocky in there instead of Ali, who outpunched Frazier actually. And while most of those punches where pitty-patter they took their toll on Joe. Now Rocky would throw even more punches but each one with bad intentions. You think Frazier would like that? I don´t. IMO Rocky stops him late - and I love Joe.

But anyway, like you said, just opinion. :thumbsup

 

If you are looking for flash, that's not what this guy had. Flash and then pose for the spectators is not what this guy did. He was a bricklayer of the highest order.

What Marciano had was conditioning second to none. That itself is going to beat a lot of other fighters the second half of fights. And unlike other punchers, Rocky kept that power throughout the fight. Most ko guys are only effective early and not many have 1 punch ko's past say the 7th round. They seldom get accumulation ko's even.

I think folks are underestimating his ability to fight out of a crouch. His rear end would be almost to his calves and he had the balance to punch out of it with either hand. Incredible. Nobody fights that way anymore and nobody has the superb conditioning and physical tools to pull it off. Just who else has the ability to punch out of a crouch while moving their feet? And Rocky dipped about 4" or more lower than Joe Frazier did. And his right hand was far more formidable in there. That constant movement allowed Marciano to become a difficult guy to hit clean on the outside. All there was available was the top of his head. And he was very fast at closing the gap and was deadly with his accuracy once he put himself in punching range. And those punches just didn't miss. The opponent was not getting hit on the chin, but was having to absorb to the shoulder/kidney/elbow and that's the part of the body that deteriorated on opponents. The kind that do not count on punchstats. That type of absorption subtracts from a guy's mobility and all those shoulder and arm and elbow punches take away the other guy's snap and speed.

Steward talks about mental pressure all the time in a fight and I think this is where Rocky exceeds. His activity level forces the opponent to fight at a much higher pace than they want.No comfy zone given. And Marciano was no front runner type and could definately fight from behind or back and forth or with cuts. How many other heavies really show those traits? Usually when they fight a stationary target and catcher--everybody looks good against those guys. So would Rocky. But he did have the ability to close the gap and apply pressure 3 minutes a round for as long as the bout went. And Goldman was a great trainer and that factor added to about 8 months of hard work every day preparing for an opponent makes for a tough night's work.

 

One of the things I like about Rocky Marciano is he often appeared so cagey as he stalked his opponent.
He'd shuffle forward in a crouch but with his upper body swaying or leaning back, and he was obviously thinking and looking for openings. He applied constant and intense pressure but it wasn't the reckless aggression it it sometime characterised as. Once he landed a punch he'd just keep punching and was relentless, but if his opponent maneveured to temporary saftety, Rocky would go back to stalking and figuring his opponent's moves. The opponent would be forced to fight defensive as well as attempt to figure Rocky's increasingly awkward boxing style.