Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Paradoxically, it's because he never lost.

Let me explain. Ali is "the greatest" because he beat great fighters like Ken Norton and Joe Frazier. Why is Ken Norton great? Because he beat Ali, of course! And why is Joe Frazier great? Because he schooled Ali, almost shutting him out of a 15-round fight.

So Ali is "the greatest" because he lost two fights while still in his prime (age 29 and 30).

Marciano's opponents are considered inferior to Ali's opponents because they never beat Marciano. That's the reason Marciano will never be seen as what he really was, namely the most difficult heavyweight to beat (of all time), and therefore the best.

You'll see a lot of lunatics put Ezzard Charles on their top 5 or top 10 pound-for-pound lists, but then they say he wasn't as good an opponent as Joe Frazier or George Foreman. Remember, Ezzard was 33 years old when he fought Marciano twice.

Also, Archie Moore was 39 but he was the reigning LHW champion of the world when he fought Marciano. And Walcott was 38 but was the HW champion.

Of course, Ali gets a free pass for fighting Moore when he was 46 (!).

Marciano would have refused to fight a 46 year-old shot grandpa.

Think with your own head, and don't be fooled by the "greatest" nickname Ali gave himself. They can repeat it a million times, but it won't change the fact that Ali was getting schooled by Cooper when he won via a lucky cut, and was given a 15-round boxing lesson by Joe Frazier.

If you want to see how Marciano would fight a slick operator like Ali, watch his fights against Roland LaStarza and Harry "Kid" Matthews. Two brutal KOs of fast-footed clever boxers.:deal

 

Well said S. I have only to add this-
I loved Rocky Marciano .Saw him annihilate Carmine Vingo @ MSG in 1949.Saw him train at Grossinger's in Sullivan County.Sitting a few feet away from the ring Rocky looked like a powerhouse even when he landed on his sparring partners arms. Thud, thud, thud...Tremendously strong ,was he.
Having said this, you bring up Jack Dempsey in your post. When Rocky was champion, the logical question amongst the boxing fraternity was to compare Marciano with Jack Dempsey,and Joe Louis in their primes...
Virtually every boxing writer and trainer who saw Dempsey in his prime,
picked Dempsey to ko the much, much slower punching Marciano. VIRTUALLY
unanimous in their choosing the prime ,faster two handed Dempsey to ko the
more vulnerable Marciano...Were all these experts,who saw Dempsey not too
long before, suffering from mass dementia, or were they correct in their choice of Dempsey over Marciano.? No brawler in history would have outtoughed the prime Jack Dempsey,because he COMBINED raw speed in his
body movements,with unmatched two handed power, in the trenches. You might outbox and outun young Dempsey, but you couldn't outfight him, and that's what the much slower Marciano, could never do..
To match Marciano with the Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight, would be cruel to Rocky. Louis hit twice as fast as Marciano, and observe what Louis did to a much bigger Max Baer in 1935. And no one who Louis can hit survives.
I loved Marciano,none tougher than he, but SPEED KILLS,combined with
power,and Dempsey and Louis would have stopped Marciano as most ALL of the boxing fraternity in the 1950s, believed.
And so do I...:good

 

A bit overrated, but a tough ****ing man, and I can't remember too many fights he was in that weren't a ton of fun to watch.

 

Why would Ali choose to be humble about Marciano and not all of the other greats Ali talked trash about?

 

I don't think so. He did a thing with Howard Cosell about how he would do against the other greats nearly a decade after Marciano's death, and Marciano was the only one who Ali was not sure of the outcome in.

The fact that Ali didn't immediately say "I would've whipped him" speaks tons about the amount of respect he had for Marciano as a fighter.

 

Marciano was an entirely different fighter than Max Baer, and Dempsey himself said that Marciano punched harder than he did.

Marciano would not slowly plod after Louis with little headmovement like Max Baer did. Rocky would be bobbing and weaving and quickly closing the gap and landing damaging punches to Louis.

Against Dempsey, I believe Rocky would probably get decked early, but it would quickly escalate into a back and forth brawl with Marciano's superior stamina pulling him through to victory.

Both of those match ups would be highly entertaining.

 

Bill, true Marciano had great stamina, but he would never survive an attack from the prime Dempsey too long. Just witness the amazingly blurr like one-two, that Demsey flattened Luis Angel Firpo in the second round.Even in slow
motion you can barely detect the speed of those two punches,Dempsey tossed.Dempsey and Louis would always "get there fustess with the mostess"
against Marciano.Always.!
Why would the opinions of most every boxing scribe who saw them both at their peaks ,choose Dempsey over Marciano, truly not be more valid when
Rocky was champion, than today's opinions, SIXTY years later ? I,like to judge fighters of the past,by the opinions of those men that actually saw them
ringside...Time distorts so much of actual boxing history I believe ...Cheers...

 

Cus was wrong about a lot of things and did not like Marciano because there was a story about Cus being a pedophile and a lot of the Italian guys shunned him in the inside circle

I spoke to Lamotta and I also felt Tyson was headed in the direction of greatness but Tyson did not pass the test of overcoming adversity and never got off the floor to win and fizzled like a bully when in tough, therefore the muscles could do nothing for his courage or heart and when in deep, therefore leaving him highly lacking in area's that Marciano was STRONG

 

Thing is, Firpo nevertheless put Dempsey down first. If that would have been Rocky, Demüsey wouldn´t have gotten up. For me this is a 50/50 fight. Dempsey can take Marciano out in the first few rounds. If he doesn´t Marciano takes him out later on. Out of ten fights I think each happens 5 times.

 

How can people say **** like that? Replace the Moore that knocked Rocky down. Would he get up from that? Dempsey and Marciano both have proven ability to recover under fire. The difference to me is that Dempsey proved a consistent ability to do it against bigger men in pure hitting matches-which is exactly what Marciano-Dempsey would be. A trench war.

 

Because the difference between Marciano and Firpo is much, much bigger than the difference between Dempsey and Moore. Dempsey and Moore are comparable as punchers, Marciano and Firpo are not.

Yes it would be a trench war. And neither ever faced an opponent like the other. Marciano never faced someone with the combination of speed, power and ferociousness that Dempsey brings to the table. And Dempsey never met someone as powerful, determined and relentless as Marciano. Thing is, Dempsey was used to fighting and taking out bigger opponents. And that´s where he was at his best. But Marciano isn´t. He´s at best as big as Dempsey. And Marciano was a master at fighting small. I wonder how Dempsey would deat with that. :think

I don´t back either fighter. I think it´s 50/50 and totally depends on Dempsey. Can he take out Marciano early? Yes, he can. Is he able to do it? That´s very much up for debate. If he doesn´t he won´t win.

 

That didn't seem to worry the ever-classy Holmes very much.

 

I wouldn't favour anyone over him who came before him (other than maybe Joe) and not more than four or five who fought since.

 

Fighters I think can, not will, beat Marciano:
Fitz

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Langford

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Frazier
Foreman

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Bowe

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red = favs over Rocky
yellow = 50/50
bold = Rocky´s the fav

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl ACTUALLY GEORGE FOREMAN IS THE ONLY FIGHTER WHO I WOULD PICK 100% AGAINST THE GEAT ROCKY, AND MAYBE I WOULD PICK LISTOn TOO, BUT GEORGE FOREMAN IS THE WoRST MATCH for ROCKY. actually i think that marciano would break lewis and holmes late. frazier would beat rocky by close sd,marciano would give the hell to ali, styles make fights, but finally ali would take a decision, ali was too fast, he had great chin and great stamina, but I don´t doubt that he was urinating blood after of the fight.