Rocky Marciano v George Foreman

Well i certainly don't think of him as a god. I readily pick Lewis, Liston and often Holmes over him as well as agreeing with the chances of some others. The Foreman you try to put Forward from Scrap Iron is a long way from the Foreman that almost decapitated Frazier and Norton which IMO shows your leaning on the topic.

I see Foreman often criticised for this padded record but at the end of the day the guy had to go thru Frazier to win the title and readily took on the tough Norton followed immediately by Ali. He then fought a Lyle coming off a brutal give and take KO of Shavers which showed Lyle could both take it off an immense hitter and then come back to dish it out. I hardly equate not having fought Jerry Quarry as akin to running around scared of fighting good fighters. It is probably also more fitting to blame his pre title assortment of opponents on his management, not George being gutless or unwilling.

Well i think Lyle was a pretty heavy hitter. Heaven forbid the mention but he has 30 solid pounds on the Rock.

Also you might be strengthening my own points here, look at who he looked great against (your words) and look at who "exposed" him. This is my whole point, Rocky is certainly not a cutie like Ali or Young, he is closer to the lines of Frazier and Norton himself was also no stick and jabber. I'll say it again, stylistically Rocky is well recieved by Foreman.

Who said he's unbeatable? Picking him to beat the much smaller Rock by early stoppage due to stylistic beliefs is hardly equal to thrusting Foreman forward as unbeatable. Ali beat him peak right? Foreman himself will have stylistic difficulties with your Ali's and Holmes.

Personally i think Foreman, especially pre Ali would have mopped the floor with the very resectable Quarry. Too much is made about the fact these two didn't fight. Harping on Foreman due to missing this match just doesn't prove a thing to me. Your friend Scar Iron gave Quarry a much tougher battle than he gave George, in fact prime Quarry couldn't stop the man in 20 rounds

 

no hope 4 rocky here

 

This is the kind of fight, much like Frazier, Marciano, and Louis etc vs Tyson, where if you make it through the first 5 rounds, you will most likely take over, forgetting any unseen problems or surprises along the way.

 

Although this is the kind of fight you described, it's a poor comparison to anyone vs. Tyson.

Foreman in the 1970s had genuine stamina problems, Tyson (for most of his career, but certainly pre-1988) did not. Danger from Tyson waning as the rounds pass is a myth - the guys that beat him in late rounds did so only because they also beat him in the early rounds.

Tillis, Smith, Tucker...none of those guys beat Tyson by outlasting him.

Holyfield, Lewis, Douglas...those guys started their winning fights early.

 

marciano would get crushed..Foreman would just overpower him

 

Rocky would do better than Frazier.

But I think he would still lose.

 

He's not smaller than Liston, realistically they are very similar with George taller.

 

The only swarmer in history I'd give a good chance against Foreman head-to-head would be a peak Tyson. He has the variety, hand-speed, evasiveness, skill, chin and concussive power to prevail so long as he doesn't get drawn into a slugfest early doors.

More or less anybody who comes at Foreman straight from the first bell is in trouble unless the opponent in question an extremely skilled fighter, or a fighter of a similar size (Lewis, Liston etc). :good

 

What about Dempsey and Langford?

 

Maybe Dempsey, if he can survive past the first four-odd rounds (he'd stand a better chance stylistically than either Frazier or Marciano).

As fine a fighter as he was, Langford is too small and the weight differential too much to have a good chance. Even though he may have only been stopped a few times (one in the very twilight of his career) those defeats were to fighters of a lesser calibre than Foreman. I doubt whether they hit as hard either. :good

 

Fair call. I only really looked at their weight when actually winning the title, Foreman - 217 1/2, Liston - 214. Make no bones about it tho, Foreman fought well above his weight, as did Liston IMO.

 

Ugly matchup for Rocky. Foreman holds all the stylistic aces here.

Foreman inside 5.

 

You can't think about this fight without look at Foreman-Frazier. And based on that, the logic pick is Foreman by decapitation. Let's analyse a bit deeper though.

There are a few things to note about comparing Frazier to Marciano:

-While they are close in style, Frazier had a different approach to defence than did Marciano. Frazier used somewhat predictable head movement, which is perfectly suited to make him not take too many punches so that it is still effective in the late rounds where he does his work. However, this does not work against a Foreman type of puncher. Marciano had more of a lean-back defense which worked more effective than it looked, as all of his opponents testified after fighting him.

-Frazier was unmotivated, 10+ pounds overweight and suffering from blood pressure among others that stopped him from training hard. And training hard was exactly what made him so deadly.
Now don't get me wrong, i'd still pick Foreman to beat a well-prepared Frazier, but at least he would've looked a bit better.

-Rocky has brutal one-punch KO power. Frazier doesn't. When it came to an early slugfest, Frazier had little chance because he usually has to wear his man down. Marciano in '50-'53 was a slugger, not a swarmer. He also had a sluggers punch output of about 40 punches a round, because he put so much on them. You can see the result for yourself: Layne was stopped and out for minutes by one single punch, Walcott suffered the same fate, Louis was knocked out through the ropes (only stopped once before in 13 years of facing top10 contenders all the time) and Matthews was out after two left hooks.

-In addition to one-punch KO power, Marciano also has a wide variety of punches. Frazier has a good uppercut and a good right hand, but they're not nearly as good as his left hook. Marciano could take you out with any punch in the book, and many that were not in the book at all.
While i think Foreman is most vulnerable to straight punches, Marciano certainly has a better chance because he has more guns than Frazier. Let's not forget, an even further past his best Frazier went 5 rounds with Foreman while using a different approach.


That was the Marciano side of the story. Now let's look at Foreman.
Foreman was great at beating swarmers, but how good was he at beating sluggers? He only faced one, Lyle, and although he won, he had to take himself off the deck twice to win. Lyle was a big strong guy, but as a puncher i am not really that impressed by him. He knocked out all of his tomato cans, but when he stepped up, all of his fights went the distance, with the only exception being the Shavers fights (who had a glass chin). Needless to say, Marciano is a much better slugger than Lyle.




So i think this one is closer than most people are inclined to think when just saying "Foreman destroyed Frazier, so he'll destroy Marciano".

However, i still have to go with Foreman by KO in this one.