Rocky Marciano v Sam Peter

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 6, 2016.


Page 6 of 17
  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,573
    46,182
    Feb 11, 2005
    Seamus, Dec 9, 2016
    Seamus, Dec 9, 2016
    #76
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,365
    21,813
    Sep 15, 2009
    We both know loads of angles will tell loads of stories.

    However I'm going to straight up assume you've watched the fight in question. When watching the duo of fights did it seem that Toney was under sized or in danger of being physically overwhelmed?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    #77
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,730
    29,078
    Jun 2, 2006
    Four inches at the most and nine inches in reach, no need to exaggerate.
     
    mcvey, Dec 9, 2016
    mcvey, Dec 9, 2016
    #78
  4. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,727
    3,933
    Jun 13, 2012
    Still a significant difference.
     
    VG_Addict, Dec 9, 2016
    VG_Addict, Dec 9, 2016
    #79
    ascended likes this.
  5. mostobviousalt

    mostobviousalt Active Member banned Full Member

    519
    103
    Jun 4, 2016
    It's not that I disagree or agree with the conclusion because I haven't made one myself but I have a feeling you put too much worth into the first Toney fight and the fact that Peter was gassy against Wlad.

    Peter redeemed that Toney performance by being in better shape the 2nd fight.
    And pretty much any fighter gasses if they have Wlad hugging and leaning on him for 12 rounds.
     
    mostobviousalt, Dec 9, 2016
    mostobviousalt, Dec 9, 2016
    #80
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,365
    21,813
    Sep 15, 2009
    It's not the toney performance because the second fight is the same indicator. Despite Toney being 5'10 Peter was totally unable to overwhelm or walk through Toney. He could not compete with him on the inside.

    His only success was on the back foot when he out jabbed Toney and was able to circle away from him.

    I don't think he would be able to beat Rocky in the same manner due to the forward movement and ring cutting ability Rocky displays.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    #81
  7. mostobviousalt

    mostobviousalt Active Member banned Full Member

    519
    103
    Jun 4, 2016
    Toney's defence is much better than Marciano's though, especially on the inside.

    And I think Toney's chin is the more proven one from above LHW onwards, actually.

    Even way past his best, and I think it was with an injured arm he was able to take a pasting from Lebedev.
    Heavy shots from Browne too, also way past his best. (Lucas is **** though)
    Holyfield, Rahman, Jirov too.
     
    mostobviousalt, Dec 9, 2016
    mostobviousalt, Dec 9, 2016
    #82
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,365
    21,813
    Sep 15, 2009
    Not just about defence. Peter was very slow up close and could get no leverage against such a short fighter. He needed space to win second time round and Toney isn't as good coming forward as Rocky is.

    Peter isn't keeping Rocky at the end of his jab and he isn't winning any battles at close quarters. He has proven he can't physically overwhelm a man of these dimensions.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    #83
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,573
    46,182
    Feb 11, 2005
    Not that I'm going to pick Peter here, but are you really suggesting that being short is an advantage, particularly for a slow-footed fighter?
     
    Seamus, Dec 9, 2016
    Seamus, Dec 9, 2016
    #84
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,365
    21,813
    Sep 15, 2009
    Not always an advantage. And slow is a matter of perspective.

    Rocky has slower feet than Charles, Walcott and Moore but certainly isn't as slow as 230 pound Toney not 250 pound Peter.

    Having short arms is a horrific disadvantage if your against a man skilled at keeping you at range such as Wlad or Foreman.

    But it is an advantage if you're against a man with limited skills, slower feet than you, poor conditioning and less leverage up close. There's obviously a chance that Peter lands a right hand as Rocky comes in but the way he throws his overhand right is perfect for Rocky to duck under. His 1-2 isn't quick enough to force Rocky to reset his feet every attack.

    I think Rocky has a huge stylistic advantage here.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    lufcrazy, Dec 9, 2016
    #85
  11. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,959
    2,031
    Apr 26, 2006
    Not always, but yes, as a rule, physics is relevant in moving stuff.
     
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    #86
  12. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,959
    2,031
    Apr 26, 2006
    Who would win, Lomachenko or Marciano? There's about 3 inches and 50 lbs( about the same as Marciano-Peter). between them, and keep in mind, I LOVE Lomachenko.
     
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    #87
  13. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,959
    2,031
    Apr 26, 2006

    Not always, but yes, as a rule, physics is relevant in moving stuff.
     
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    #88
  14. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,959
    2,031
    Apr 26, 2006
    It's not really that hard:

    Wilfredo Gomez was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought Sanchez?
    Too Sharp Johnson was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought Marquez?
    Felix Trinidad was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought Hopkins?
    Carmen Basilio was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought Fullmer?
    Julian Jackson was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought McCllelan?
    Bob Foster was a devastating puncher WHEN HE HIT GUYS HIS SIZE! What happened when he fought Frazier and Ali?

    Physics matters, that's why they made weight classes.
     
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    slender4, Dec 9, 2016
    #89
    ascended likes this.
  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,903
    7,636
    Mar 17, 2010
    George Mitu is the goat
     
    reznick, Dec 9, 2016
    reznick, Dec 9, 2016
    #90
Page 6 of 17