Rocky Marciano vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Jan 1, 2021.

Who wins

  1. Marciano Decision

    1.5%
  2. Marciano Knockout

    82.1%
  3. Williams Decision

    3.0%
  4. Williams Knockout

    13.4%
  1. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Who'd win this fight?
     
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  2. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Would be an excellent fight. I'll give it to Marciano over Williams.
     
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  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Marciano gets lumps taken out of him early, stops William s in ten.
     
  4. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Williams is an attractive, hard-hitting boxer. He took a stripe out of Sonny Liston in the first round of their fight. If you had to pick a guy to be able to hurt Marciano he would be a decent pick.

    Unfortunately he doesn't seem to tie up close in and he appears to have a glass chin. Probably not a good thing against Marciano.

    I think Rocky catches up to him sooner or later and flattens him.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The kind of next level athlete Marciano never faced. This looks like Rudy without the happy ending.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Easy money for Rocky. Ko by 5.
     
  7. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    China does shatter
     
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  8. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are we talking prime for prime, or historically possible scenario?
     
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So Marciano is just going to walk into one of the hardest hitting punchers in history who's not only more powerful and stronger than him, but outweighs him by 30-40 pounds (off the top of my head), a half foot taller, is MUCH faster, has a 13 inch reach advantage, and even has a boxing advantage. Call me crazy but no way I'm favoring Rocky.

    I think he meets a similar fate against men like Bruno, Ruddock, Lyle, etc.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I love Rocky but The sport has unfortunately evolved from times where a 5'9 slow, crude, cut-prone, 180 pounder with a heart of Gold is able to rule the Heavyweight division.
     
  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Cleveland Big Cat Williams was quite a big hitter in his era before he was on the receiving end of a Texas State Trooper's .357 Magnum on Nov 30 1964. He broke Sonny Liston's nose in their 1959 battle only to be kayoed early by Liston in round 3. But the knock on Big Cat is that he could not take a solid hard punch. Sure he owns a 7th round knockout of Ernie Terrell in 1962, but again he was erratic. Rocky Marciano like a years later Smoking Joe Frazier was a fierce running locomotive. He was so relentless, that he would withstand Williams early bombs to end the brutal affair with a Suzi Q right hand in round 5.
     
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  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Their seems to be an unsubstantiated myth not just in this thread, but in the boxing world in general that Williams had a glass chin. That's simply not true. The only person who knocked him out in a 12 year period was Sonny Liston, one of the hardest punchers of all time. Even Satterfield himself who people use to disparage Williams was impressed with his chin and determination. "he's got plenty of heart and that's the big thing. I hit him some real hard punches in the second round and he just came back"

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    "In the second round he stood up under two booming right hands from Satterfield." Source:
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    You could make a case that after he was shot he was lacking in durability, but prior to that their was nothing wrong with his chin. The only person who ever knocked him out even remotely close to his prime was a peak Sonny Liston. Their is absolutely no shame in that.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So you admit that Williams was one of the hardest punchers in history, and comparable to men like Bruno Ruddock and Lyle.

    This is progress!

    Perhaps you might want to look at his results against the best fighters of his day?

    That is all that you would need, to kill dead the idea, that being a big man with a terrifying punch, would bring you success in the 50s!
     
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ye do realise that Williams was 6-3, 215 pounds and flattened Roger Reischer and Alex Miteff..?
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When haven't I? I've always defended Williams on this forum against unsubstantiated criticism.

    Sure, Let's do it together.
    Ali: He was ultra shot (literally) and had nothing left and was reasonably decimated.

    Liston: Williams broke Liston's nose in one round, staggered him, hurt him, and nearly knocked him out (by Liston's own admission), and gave him probably the only real challenge in his prime. Afterwards, Liston said Williams was the hardest puncher he'd ever faced.

    Terrell: He knocked out Terrell, who'd never lost decisively and would go on to become the 2nd best heavy of the mid-60s and undefeated the next 5 years until running into a peak Muhammad Ali. They actually had a rematch where Terrell barely nicked by an SD, that many including the AP and myself, thought Williams who finished the stronger, and may have even gotten a stoppage had the fight been 15 rounds, deserved the verdict.

    Machen: The highest ranking heavyweight not named Sonny Liston. Williams fought him to a "draw", a majority draw actually with the one judge who didn't have it even, had Williams the clear winner, as did the AP, and the audience. "Williams the no. 5 contender felt he had turned in an upset. Most of the crowd of 10,000 partial perhaps to the hometown favorite and one judge agreed." Source:
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    Miteff: "Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who shattered the title hopes of 7th ranked Alex Miteff with a 5th round TKO, set up a howl today for a shot at champion Floyd Patterson. If Williams ever looked as though he deserved a shot at the title, it was Tuesday night. He took command of the fight from Miteff from the start, opened a bad cut over his left eye in the 2nd, floored him for eight counts in the 3rd and 4th, and was beating him badly when referee Ernie Taylor mercifully ended it 1:32 deep into the 5th."

    Billy Daniels: Daniels was undefeated barring a loss to the greatest of all time (in which he gave a fairly good effort of himself) prior to fighting Williams. Williams effectively ruined him as he only picked up5 wins after their first encounter in the remainder of his career, only one of which was against a world-class opponent in Doug Jones (actually right before his one-sided rematch with Williams) "punishing Billy Daniels so much in a 10-round decision that Daniels has never been the same fighter since"
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    Their's a reason, he didn't have more fights with the top fighters of his era. Nobody wanted to fight him!

    That's just it. He wasn't just "a big man with a terrifying punch", he was more well-rounded than people would like to give him credit for. On top of being quite possibly the hardest puncher of the era (common opponents and/or men who'd shared the ring with both ranked Williams as a harder puncher than Liston himself) He was also a deceptively quick man, and had very underrated boxing skills.
     
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  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not to mention that Cleveland Williams was going to be matched against Ernie Terrell for the vacant WBA tile after the WBA stripped it from Muhammad Ali for giving Sonny Liston a rematch. The fight was to have taken place on March 5 1965, but Williams was shot by a Texas State Trooper on Nov 30 1964, after celebrating the announcement.
     
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