Rocky Marciano vs Cleveland Williams

This is very true. I am glad you mention this. It explains some of the logic behind picking Williams to knockout Marciano. So Thankyou. I understand the theory entirely. If Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott can drop Marciano, then surely a bigger, taller, more muscular man can do the same. Clearly Williams must hit harder? And perhaps he did. The trouble of course is that vastly more intelligent punchers like Walcott and Moore probably didn’t have to hit as hard as Williams. If Williams had the craft and top level experience of Walcott or Moore then he would have been extremely dangerous.

At world level. But he wasn’t was he?

If Williams had that craft or ability at that level he might actually translate his awesome power into something relevant in a all time great discussion like this. But in truth the men Williams was able to nail were nowhere near championship level. Not even gate keeper level. Like I said before, if he can’t knockout Machen (when Ingo and Frazier did) then what business does Williams have knocking out a all time great fighter who was never knocked out?

yes all the stars lined up for Cleveland Williams against Billy Daniels. He got two chances to shine there. But in 20 rounds the prime version of Williams produced nothing worth remembering in two tepid points wins between decent contenders.

What level were the opponents who succumbed to Williamd quintuple left hooks though? Who was knocked clean out by this combination?

 

I don't think saying that Cleveland Williams was nothing special is hating, because he wasn't anything special even at his best.

 

This is a fair suggestion. Charlie Goldman would be a bit wary of Marciano getting hit on the chin by the big Cat. But I think Goldman was a whole lot more concerned when the first match with Charles was made. Ezzard had just poleaxed Bob Satterfeild as he came out of a low crouch. A stylistic technique Marciano used. And Bob and Rocky were of a similar size. A good student of boxing would assume Marciano would be a very suitable and good match for Charles after that kind of win. Where as if I were Williams trainer I can’t say With total confidence that the big cat isn’t going to fall for the kind of treatment Satterfeild put on him...no matter how much he improved or more mature he got.

 

no this fight is more like Frank Bruno vs Mike Tyson. Or Cleveland Williams vs Bob Satterfeild.

Take the best ever version of Williams. A ten times better version than the one who was knocked out as a young boy by Bob Satterfeild if you like. It won’t matter because Marciano was ALWAYS better than Satterfeild.

yes Williams can land on Rocky. And with his eyes closed. The problem for Williams is getting hit before he can do it and also that better fighters have better anticipation levels and can ride blows that the lesser victims can’t see. Which is why when Williams stepped up, like Frank Bruno, the very best fighters were no longer getting knocked out. The very best. There is no shame in that. Williams just couldn’t tag the best fighters in the way he could against some of the obscure yet colourfully named victims he flattened in Texas and Florida.

not really. Williams had two chances to shine against Billy Daniels and he didn’t shine. He had a chance to shine against Terrell, a guy he already beat, and he didn’t shine. He had a chance to shine against Machen. And he didn’t shine. That’s four fights in his prime. How many chances can you give him to shine? Theses are between terrible beatings from Ali and Liston. Absolute poundings. And that’s Leaving out the earlier Satterfeild loss.

that sounds like a lot of excuses.

That’s not so outlandish given the hysteria over Williams based at lower levels.

no more than I can pick Frank Bruno to beat Mike Tyson.

 

Bruno v Tyson is probably a good comparison.

 

In other words you have zero argument. Try researching and admitting you’re wrong time to time...it’s humbling.

 

Next level who got KO'd by freaking Bob Satterfield.

 

I went with Marciano by knockout but I can see this being a hellacious fight.

 

I went with Marciano by knockout. I believe he was on a higher level than Williams. I think it's another case of a fighter looking good (by some) against Marciano, until Marciano knocks him out, which describes much of Marciano's career.

 

A lot of people got ko'd by Satterfield he was a monstrous puncher. Satterfield beat a 20 years old last minute substitute in Williams.
Satterfield beat
Valdes no1
Oma no 9
Baker
Mederos
Holman x2
Johnson
Gomez
Barone
Summerlin
Marshall
Smith
Mitchell
Satterfield was ranked no9 when he stopped young Wiliams
"Bob freaking Satterfield?"

You seem to be implying he was a nobody.

 

Correct. Satterfield was no nobody. In truth, Bob made a bigger impact on the division than Williams ever did.

 

I'm not getting on your hate agenda, I had a belly full of that with the other clown who is now thankfully banned. You fill your boots on Williams and Liston,I could care less.

 

Not quite a nobody, but he had a 33% loss ratio with more than half by knockout. He wasn't near the puncher of Rocky

 

I’m not going to denigrate Williams or say that it was metaphysically impossible for him to win a fight with Marciano … although I picked Rocky by KO … but I want to respectfully ask a tough question.

People have poked at the supposed pedestal that some posters place Williams on. I am not going to try to tear him down from that pedestal, but I wonder if his career being derailed by being gut shot by a Texas cop invites more of a sense that “something was taken away from this guy” in a wrong, unfair, unjustified fashion to where people gravitate to his story in a way that they might not if his career had been derailed by, say, losing a kidney to cancer or to injuries from a car wreck.

If that makes sense.

 

Williams would likely be too much of an athlete in his prime. Marciano never faced a prime, 6-2, quick twitch fighter with 80" reach who could pound like Cleveland. This is out of his league, athlete wise.

He would better to stay mixing it with the white dopes and ancient lightheavies he relished.