Rocky Marciano vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KeedCubano, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,972
    9,841
    Jul 30, 2014
    The argument wasn't the credibility of Chuvalo's testimony. Klompton expressed doubt at He Grant's claim of Chuvalo praising Williams power, as it didn't come from a direct source. All I did was verify Chuvalo did indeed make the claim.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    92,411
    19,955
    Jun 2, 2006
    Liston was ranked no9 in 1958.

    1958
    This content is protected
    , Champion

    1. This content is protected
    2. This content is protected
    3. This content is protected
    4. This content is protected
    5. This content is protected
    6. This content is protected
    7. This content is protected
    8. This content is protected
    9. This content is protected
    10. This content is protected
     
    JohnThomas1 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,103
    12,656
    Jun 25, 2014
    Yep, all dozen or so guys who BEAT Williams thought he hit really hard. (LOL)

    Like I said the other day, after Marciano beat him, Rocky would probably say Williams hit really hard, as well.

    Too bad Cleveland didn't hit harder. Maybe so many people wouldn't have beaten him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
    choklab likes this.
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,103
    12,656
    Jun 25, 2014
    Those are the ratings from the February 1959 issue. He'd just snuck in there.

    The point being Marciano had already decided not to come back in the summer of 58. That's why Patterson switched gears and fought Harris that summer (and, as you can see, Harris was no longer in the ratings by the February 1959 issue).

    Rocky was training to come back with the intention of fighting for the title, not to fight a guy who wasn't rated at the time.

    When he realized he didn't have the desire anymore, he didn't even make the attempt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  5. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,972
    9,841
    Jul 30, 2014
    Mcvey, don't even bother with this guy. He's a hypocritical, self-contradicting, dishonest, POS. Not to mention the biggest Wilder dickrider this forum's ever seen.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  6. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,305
    4,255
    Feb 10, 2013
    Exactly, why would Marciano start training for a comeback to fight Liston? The money and the fight that people would have paid to see would have been Marciano-Patterson. Not Marciano against some guy who isnt rated. What does Marciano's aborted comeback, which never even got off the ground, have to do with Williams anyway? Williams, despite what he and his weird cult would have you believe, was a non entity at this point.
     
    Gazelle Punch, Dubblechin and choklab like this.
  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    23,153
    5,880
    Jul 15, 2008
    Who said that Rocky ducked Liston or Williams ? It's obvious the career timelines don't match .. his points were to confirm that Williams was a big hitter based on his discussions w Chuvalo and that Liston and Williams were fighters most did not go out of their way to fight in the late 1950's. As far as Chuvalo saying Rocky was well managed, so what, he was ? He was also smart enough to get out on time and stay retired. He was also smart enough in 59-60 when publicly considering a comeback fight with Ingo to never express the same interest w Liston who was then very much in the scene. Only miserable hysterics with zero business aptitude would take that as saying Chuvalo didn't like Marciano or wouldn't jump at the chance too use his fame for career advancement.
     
    swagdelfadeel and mcvey like this.
  8. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,601
    4,912
    May 18, 2006
  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,103
    12,656
    Jun 25, 2014
    I didn't disagree about anyone being "well managed" or say anything about Chuvalo.

    You said ... Your buddy said ... Chuvalo said ... (if I have that right - LOL) Marciano never considered fighting Liston. And I said why would he?

    Marciano began training in 57 and 58 because he was thinking about fighting Patterson for the title. And he chose not to. (Liston was in prison in 57 and unranked when Marciano decided not to come back in the summer of 58.)

    You said Marciano also talked about coming back against Johansson when he had the belt (in 59), but, again he chose not to.

    Patterson and Johansson were the only guys to hold the title after Marciano in the 50s. So those were the two fighters he considered.

    You saying ... your buddy said ... Chuvalo said (again, think I got that right) Marciano never considered Liston ... that didn't merit a phone call to your friend. I could've told you that. Why would Marciano consider a guy in prison or a guy who wasn't rated?

    Marciano was looking for a possible title fight. And Liston didn't have a title in the 1950s.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    23,153
    5,880
    Jul 15, 2008
    i think our lines are crossed as I’m not debating you. BTW, it was a text to my friend, not a call, since you’re being exact. :) that said, in the past six or seven years my appreciation for Rocky has grown and grown .. none of this is meant to disrespect him. Just discuss.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    26,729
    6,286
    Dec 31, 2009
    It is interesting that Simmons said Rocky hit harder than Williams.
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    41,886
    23,264
    Apr 27, 2005
    Marciano hit DAMN hard tho.
     
    choklab and young griffo like this.
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,972
    9,841
    Jul 30, 2014
    I've no doubt Marciano hit harder than a 19 year old green, undeveloped, Williams. Unfortunately this means nothing unless we're pitting a teenage Big Cat, against a prime Rocky.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    92,411
    19,955
    Jun 2, 2006
    As interesting as
    Charles
    Lastarza
    Moore
    Cokkell
    Saying they had been hit harder by others.
     
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    23,153
    5,880
    Jul 15, 2008
    Joe Louis said he believed Satterfield hit harder than Marciano ... I say this w the full Marciano disclaimer to his attack mob that I am a big Rocky fan.
     
    mcvey and swagdelfadeel like this.