Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Oct 13, 2016.
Oh ,okay sorry pal.
That's ducking the question!
A fair point but in this case it seemed like haye exhausted himself.
Haye was a more complete fight at hw then he was at cw.
Why would haye come in lighter at heavyweight if his opponent is smaller and slower?
To deal with the pace. That's why against a lighter opponent Haye would lose weight.
Rocky really was not slow. He was slower than Louis, Dempsey, Ali and Patterson but on par with almost all of the other good ones.
Great fighters compensate. Speed is just one thing. Timing, anticipation and natural radar are just as important. Take George Foreman, he had Natural radar. He landed blows he really should nit have. Was not particularly fast but he was pin point accurate with cumbersome blows, his distance was great.
Hand speed is all relative to the quality of opposition.
I've watched the film many times. Even the commentators note Charles inside work. Charles doesn't stay on the inside. He's a smarter fighter and had the skill to go in and out. However there are many times where Charles stays in mid range early on but he gave Marciano trouble on the inside. Marciano's goal was to get on the inside whereas Charles wanted to keep him at the end of his jab in the center of the ring. Charles beat Marciano on the inside in a few of those engagements that is how he came so close to beating him. It was his goal to keep him at mid range like you said but Marciano would force the fight to the inside.
Charles fought a clever fight up close. He used the jab as more of a feint or decoy to lure Rocky into committing into the space Charles had prepared to meet him with counter rights. Ezzard kept the fight ring centre and barely backed up at all apart from a few of Rockys strongest moments.
This was no dancing, stick and move display. Charles stepped off to step back in to wind up a counter. Rather than back up he turned Rocky within a clinch and used a good trick on the turn whereby he could hit Rocky when he had one foot on the canvas to his two feet on the canvas. Charles was a very clever fighter.
Yes he would.
He definitely have will have his moments against Marciano early who was a slow starter and clumsy.
When Marciano gets annoyed and decides enough is enough.
Thats when Hayes downfall begins.
You have just confirmed my analysis of the fight!I bought the Marciano highlights on Castle films over 50 years ago.
I reckon that Haye would well be within the scope of Marciano to beat.
Even if we set aside the gulf in results, Marciano is all wrong for Haye.
Haye basically needs room to think, in order to work his magic.
You don't hold your hands down and wait for an opening against Marciano!
Do we really know how good David Haye was?
We know he punched himself out at a young age and we know he couldn't outbox Wladimir.
The only man who ever proved to be better than him was Wlad.
He's quicker than Rocky and hits just as hard with a better defence. Durability is about the same I'd say.
I'm gonna say this. Watching fights of both would lead to a prediction I don't wanna make.
But I think Rocky would make Haye work at a pace he didn't like and couldn't sustain and would ultimately win a shootout after 7 rounds.
Yes sir , agreed.
Any poor soul who keeps his hands down against Marciano is begging to be executed and put out of his misery.
That is just something you dont do.
Haye's dodgy stamina and workrate kills him here.
Utterly shagged out by round 3.
Watching some rocky fights I'm now convinced he gets ko'd, there's no way rocky with his style and size can compete with a modern explosive juiced up heavy like haye, none barring a lucky shot.
I'm going to assume this is at 200 lbs cruiserweight bout.
Go and watch Mormeck vs Haye. Mormeck was within effective range by round 3 and even dropped Haye in Round 4. Now picture that with Rocky's right hand and 10 times the output of Mormeck.
Mormeck was a solid cruiser, but he rarely jabbed and spends long periods in the pick-a-boo defense. Rocky had a more active jab and was devastating on the inside. Haye is an excellent offensive fighter, but his hands are low, his chin very high and his defence on the inside consists of shoulder push-back away and 2 slips to each side and then counter turn for an angle to move back to center. Rocky made a living out of getting smashed for the early rounds and bulldozing guys come the mid to late rounds. And BTW Mormeck was listed at 6'0 in boxrec so someone as short as Rocky (5'11) could easily find his way on the inside vs Haye. Plus Carl The Cat showed that Haye is hittable, sure it was young in his career, but Haye did not have an excellent defence it was explosive and eye-catching but he could be timed and touched regularly.
Rocky by stoppage in a great fight. I'm going with possibly the greatest pressure fighter ever in this one.