Rocky Marciano vs. David Haye

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Oct 13, 2016.

Who would win?

  1. Maricano UD

    3 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. Marciano KO

    37 vote(s)
    72.5%
  3. Haye UD

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  4. Haye KO

    10 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think that the weight makes a big difference to be honest.

    Haye is still trading on the same limited work rate, the same limited stamina, and the same limited resolve.

    He has power and precision, but that is all that he has.

    The weight might be a big deal if Haye would use it to wear Marciano out, but that isn't going to happen.
     
    choklab likes this.
  2. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He is a vastly superior athlete than a heavyweight who could average 85 punches per round, over fifteen rounds?

    This isn't a glamour model shoot here!
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    His stamina isn't on his level.

    But his speed, movement, reflexes and power all are.

    Ultimate the fitness of Rocky wins this bout for him.
     
  4. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    HW Haye wasn't draining himself like crazy. That had a marked improvement on his stamina and punch resistance. CW Haye would go down from glancing blows and suffer rapid drop offs in performance. The HW iteration doesn't seem to suffer from those same problems.
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I would disagree. The pace of the slower men exaggerated the speed advantage and it prevented David from being hit Quite so much..

    I saw no increase in punch resistance.

    his punch resistance was not so good against Barrett, he was on the canvas in that one. In fact David's stamina looked questionable against Chisora he fought open mouthed quite a bit in that one.

    He was a bulked up, padded out version of the same guy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    A fighter only looks as fast as the guy fighting him lets him. The foot speed of the heavyweight oafs Haye fought May have flattered the level of speed he has. The slower foot speed and positioning of Vlad certainly shut down David.

    Haye was no bigger naturally than the vast majority of guys Rocky fought. He was just heavier. Consider that without modern training Haye never would have been bigger than 190.

    Do you think a 217lb version of Rex Layne beats Rocky?


    Ali at 210 is still a bigger guy than Haye at 224. By today's standard Ali was a 230 guy fighting at 210 where as Haye is a 190 guy building artificially into something else. I absolutely dispute how tall Haye says he is but regardless of this drawing a comparison of Ali and Haye confuses the issue.

    it is a misconception to assume extra weight translates into extra punching power. It depends on the kind of punch and the type of puncher the fighter is. Some types of punches will increase with extra weight. Some, the clean sharp ones that depend on a pivot impact right on the perfect arc of a punch are more difficult to perform at a higher weight. If a higher number of those kinds of one punch impacts are performed at the lower weight then that's the weight the guy hits hardest at.

    And it depends if the extra weight effects the punch output because obviously if it takes less punches to do the same job you still need to land enough times in the first place to do it. So it really depends on a lot of factors. It's important to decide what quantity of each type of punch the puncher registers with at a higher weight before deciding if just extra weight alone will improve his overall punching.

    A lot of time a perfect punch is a perfect punch. The impact is so correct it will do the job at any time. Over all output might produce more damage (over all) from a heavier guy but that must be balanced with how often he lands compared with the lighter weight.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    The 193lbs version of Layne that Marciano beat was flabby in the midsection, he would have benefited by coming in under 190lb imo. Haye would knock Layne spark out.

    Haye is nothing special, Charles and Walcott both beat him imo, his record is pretty shallow he ducked the good challengers and disgraced himself against Wlad. Bye All!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I agree Charles and Walcott beat Haye.

    By the way, I disagree a lot with you but I respect your principals.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Not only was Layne a flabby 193 but even Dempsey was complaining because he was so physically weak and refused to do anything about it. Apparently, Layne had some skill but not a lot natural athletic ability and/or commitment to conditioning.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Layne was a rock hard 192lb in the best win of his career against Walcott so I don't understand where you are going with this flabby 193lb Rex Layne business. Layne was even heavier than he was against Rocky when he beat Charles!

    I imagine there has to be a belief that if Layne was flabby at 193 there would be no cause for him to be any heavier because he would just simply be further "out of shape"...

    The whole reason I theoretically brought up a 217lb version of Rex Layne was to illustrate that nobody gives a fighter Rocky already beat a better chance against him out of simply being heavier. Only modern fighters!

    George Foreman was no Rock hard specimen when he knocked out Micheal Moorer.

    This obsession with muscles...it has to stop.
     
  12. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Chok, would i be correct in assuming that you personally are not particularly musclebound as you seem very hung up about it constantly.?
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You wouldn't believe me anymore than I believe anybody else who says they are a big guy on the internet.

    When I boxed I had a traditional amatuer boxers physique. Never worked out with weights because I never needed to work on strength...I needed to work on stamina a whole lot and I was a really bad runner. So I concentrated on my weakness which was cardio.

    If anything I felt sorry for the grass root guys who took up boxing who were far too short for their weight class because they had too much of a cosmetic interest in bodybuilding. They made it too hard for themselves. The committed one's would drop bodybuilding, keep their weight down in order to reach a competitive level of boxing but so many quit before taking an actual fight. In fact I would say the ratio of bodybuilders taking up boxing versus guys who did other sports first I would say less of the bodybuilders made it to actually having an official bout.

    I dont have hang ups over guys who don't fight who build themselves up in order to help their confidence. I'm happy for them.

    I perhaps do have an issue with non fighters who believe a non fighting guy with muscles (who never ever fought) automatically can fight...But that's not uncommon irritation among guys who did fight and saw all those bodybuilders who never made it to their first fight.

    An already excelent boxer who builds up artificially into another weight class or size is a completely different matter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
    reznick likes this.
  14. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    excess muscle slows you down. the idea is to fight, not to outpose your opponent.
     
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Exactly. For many tv fans the musculature nature is a distracting factor in deciding upon even a potential fighters worth.