Rocky Marciano vs Earnie Shavers

Conversely, I don't think the Quarry fight is good example from which to draw comparisons to Marciano. Quarry was quite a bit quicker of hand, had better accuracy and punch variety… and just strung his punches together in better fashion. Marciano would find a way to draw this into a war… and he would most likely win the war.

 

rocky:5'9" he wins better chin and maybe stamina/pressure.

 

Rocky!

ES only has a punchers chance

 

two HUGE punchers, this fight could have caused an earthquake

 

Hell of a fight.

 

Very potentially painful fight for Rocky, as he wasn't particularly hard to hit and could sometimes be a slow starter and Shavers was often guns blazing early. Shavers has a significant reach advantage and could time Rocky as he's boaring his way in to whack away.

I think it's inevitable Shavers clips Rocky with something deadly, knocks him down, but is unable to capitalize and finish off the Brockton bruiser. Probably by round 3-4. Rocky may even go down a 2nd time but simply refuses to stay down and survives due to Shavers wild swings and Rocky's head movement and tenacity. Shavers is then drug into deep waters from round 5 onwards. Rocky recovers slowly while tearing away at Shavers body and pressuring him with non stop barrages. They slug it out in round 6 as the audience is on their feet screaming but Shavers is rapidly running out of energy. In round 7 Shavers is only throwing 1 punch at a time hoping to get Rocky out of there, but by now Rocky is fully warmed up, has cleared this head from the ringing, and is showing no mercy. Rocky walks into a desperate roundhouse right cross from Shavers and suffers a black eye, but wins round 8 beating Shavers senseless against the ropes.

The roles are completely reversed in round 9 when Rocky lands a 4 punch combination. Shavers takes a knee and is breathing out of his mouth barely able to raise his arms. Rocky can barely see, on wobbly legs, and pouring sweat but is somehow able to continue landing dozens of punches without slowing down like a Tasmanian devil. Shavers can only cover up at this point, going into his shell. Rocky manages to land a powerful left uppercut that slips through the guard and Shavers stumbles about groggy--aware of his surroundings but simply unable to react or move properly to defend himself. A wrecking ball of a right hand crashes on Shavers bald, shiny dome covering the ref in a pool of sweat and blood. The ref has seen enough and catches Shavers who is about to collapse from sheer exhaustion. Rocky himself is relieved it's finally over, barely manages to raise his arm to salute the crowd, then both guys take a knee chuckling at how badly they beat the tar out of each other. "I guess they didn't call ya the acorn for nothing, you're one tough nut to crack...!" Says Rocky completely out of breath.

 

Marciano

 

Blasphemy I know but I think both Rocky’s chin and Earnie’s power are a tad overrated - so I guess all things remain somewhat equal to how others might see this fight.

Despite claims that Shavers simply lacked the skill to finish off certain opponents - we have several fights that we can see Earnie landing everything and the kitchen sink without yielding a KO and in some cases, not even a KD.

We also have some unfilmed fights of Earnie’s described thusly. Stander certainly didn’t duck, weave and dodge his way through fights. Per his own testimony and 3rd party descriptions, he soaked up everything Earnie had.

Anyway, Rock will cop some of Earnie’s best early, so it really comes down to Marciano being able to survive same - as several fighters did during Earnie’s actual career. And, as was the case most often during Shaver’s career, if the Rock is still standing and slinging his own back after say 5 rounds, the price on Rocky for the win shortens by the second IMO.

Just a side note - Shavers barely scratched 6 feet in height if even that - his 80” reach no doubt facilitated getting some of his bigger punches home - see overhand right that dropped Holmes.

As extraordinary a reach as that might seem - for mine it passed the eye test since Shavers arms did appear quite long with large fists.

Comparatively, it builds in for the case of Liston’s stats because his arms and fists did appear that much longer and bigger again.

 

I'm about the same size as Liston and Shavers. 6'1, 80' reach, 230 lbs. Nothing unrealistic about their reach for that height. The nurses measured me with my arms stretched out to the sides across the chest from finger to finger. Both Shavers and especially Liston have bigger hands than mine and more developed chest muscles which adds to their "reach".

 

Sure, I remember you mentioning this before. Definitely not unrealistic - as my belief in Shaver’s reach should reflect.

But we can say at least quite uncommon - in the realms of extraordinary but well possible.

Done properly a reach measurement can preclude chest size - reach is a measurement that is likely done more than one way - therefore lacking consistency and corrupting comparisons of measurements.

Liston had huge hands, losing a bit on length advantage when curled into a fist. At any rate, even down just to the wrist, his arms were clearly very long.

Did you ever self perceive that your arms were well longer than average - or did anyone else comment on same?

Or was it a revelation to you when measured by the nurse? Interesting. I’d kill for an 80” reach - LOL, I’m kidding, sort of. No, I’m actually not kidding. Ha!

 

Excellent post. Rocky is a better fighter undoubtedly but Shavers has the styles advantage here all the way. Rocky will be walking into those sledgehammers and it won't be pretty. He also didn't have the counterpunching abilities of Quarry imo.

Gun to my head give me Rocky. Shavers had an excellent chin, but terrible stamina so his best chance is to get Rocky out of there early, but I'm not leaning that way. Shavers was very flawed as you noted and had downright embarrassing losses throughout his career and even his prime.

Shavers is successful the first few rounds. Maybe even getting a KD or two. Later on in the fight, Shaver's stamina, already poor would be eroded even further by Marciano's relentless pressure, and he'd swing until he had absolutely nothing left no later than 8.

 

You wrote about this before, was that not you who said the nurses were very surprised by your wingspan?
Although I thought you were 6' tall. Unless say John Thomas also has such unusual proportions & a similar story with the nurses lol!

It is not unrealistic as in beyond what is at all likely, but a very small percentage of people have "ape factors" that are this long. Several inches longer than the average for the NBA, & more than the vast majority of fighters, 2 sports that select for it (although in B-Ball also for absolute length, the averages are 6'7" height & 7' wingspan, commonly called "reach".

I do not believe that chest muscularity or obesity (& even considering steroids the fattest people can get much larger, even in a chest measurement, than the most developed pecs), add

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to width.
It certainly adds to chest measurement as in the volume of the rib cage, which includes the lat muscles.
But it does not expand how far you reach.

Although those with a broad rib cage & clavicles far apart for their height certainly tend to be

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with an overall big bone structure & the ability to add muscle, so the causal chain can be confused.
But besides your basic bone torso bone spread adding something to wingspan, the flesh you have or add on there, fat or muscle, are irrelevant.

Your point about hand size is very valid.
Although again while overall size, width & thickness, tend to be *correlated* with length, only the latter makes any difference in hand size.

The length of the hands of Liston, Shavers & Foreman do not vary much.
They are all very big, especially for not being say near 7' tall.
Although any fairly small differential must be doubled to estimate the effect of having 2 arms.

 

Thanks Swag. Can’t argue with your analysis. Good stuff.

Sometimes when you analyse and imagine out fights like these - not just the ultimate result but the complexion also, it makes you realise how it has all the ingredients and potential for a highly entertaining barn burner, both guys likely being well tested by the other’s ultimate power before one emerges victorious.

Nice and accurate reference to Jerry Quarry too btw - an excellent fighter who seemed to pay a disproportionate penalty for the degree he fell short of the absolute upper tier comp. that he fought among.

Quarry KOs Shavers in 1, schools Lyle among other successes but had to lose the way he did to the likes of ATGs like Frazier an Ali - somewhat deceiving fights/results relative to Jerry’s skills and results otherwise.

 

Shavers had BIG stamina issues...never had a KO past the 7th round...never carried his power into the later rounds....lousy finisher...had Ali & Holmes hurt...couldn't put them away...against the best conditioned fighter of all time...great power in both hands...great chin...a "kill or be attitude"...an iron will...great stamina....against a guy was was KO'd in the first round by Jerry Quarry...take a WILD guess as to who wins this. Shavers who never did anything except get lucky against Jimmy Ellis...against an all time great warrior....

 

No KO past 7?……Roy Tiger Williams.