Rocky Marciano vs Evander Holyfield

Holyfield wins via late stoppage imho.

 

Not just me, quite a lot of people in fact.

I am not sure how you would know how many punches Holyfeild might have been able to throw had he stayed below 200lb throughout his career. Probably more than he did over all as an enhanced heavyweight spurt fighter.

I think evander stands more chance at a more natural weight where he might have been able to keep a steady pace.

 

Seems a bit biased. Im a huge Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, and Evander Holyfield fan... but I think Holyfield would win this.

P4P Charles was one of the best ever. Even at Charles HW best he could have made 175. He was a solid guy, strong, hard puncher at LHW, and a decent puncher at HW (in his era), but he really wasn't "naturally" as big as Holyfield. Holyfield is taller, has a longer reach, a bigger frame, and even before he turned pro... a good 10 Lbs. heavier of very solid muscle. Holyfield was a CW Champ and weighed about 200 Lbs between CW title defenses... totally ripped at 200 Lbs., 6'2 1/2", with a 77 1/2" reach. His neck was huge even before he turned pro (look at one of the 1984 Olympic team pictures), his chin is one of the best ever.

Holyfield would be able to take Charles punches and make him pay. P4P? Charles ranks higher but H2H, I'll take Holyfield.

Charles was a bit past prime when he faced Marciano but I admit he was well prepared and gave Marciano hell. Charles was 86-10-1 prior to his first fight with Marciano. After Marciano he went just 10-13. Making people believe that Charles was as good as ever vs. Marciano is going to be tough, good luck with that.

Walcott was always hot and cold. I do believe he was as good as ever vs. Marciano, at least in their first fight. I feel the same way about Archie Moore.

As for Holyfield not being consistent??? At age 30 he was 28-0 (22) overall, 10-0 (7) in World Title Fights, 5-0 (2) vs. Hall of Famers, and a 2 division World Champ.

Keep in mind he fought Bowe in his early and mid-30's. He fought Moorer in his mid and late 30's. He fought Lewis in his late 30's.

I think the fact that he beat Tyson in his mid 30's confuses people. Holyfield was past prime when he fought Tyson. Well prepared, but past prime. Sure, he fought way too long and every once in a while he beat a good fighter despite his age, but what he did when he was way past prime shouldn't count against his legacy.

A well past prime Holyfield looked very good vs. a prime Lewis in their rematch.

I think Holyfield beats Marciano, Charles, Walcott, Moore, and even Joe Louis.

 

I'd give him a decent chance against Moore.

 

Rocky wins by TKO, the tide turns in the last portion of fight late tko and still unbeaten Rocky!

 

-Not true.

Total Punches Foreman: 584
Total Punches Bowe I: 475
Total Punches Bowe II: 514 (though we must consider the fan man giving both guys a huge rest.)

-True. Against Moorer he managed 529...but mute point..as he dehydrated and nearly had a heart attack or perhaps suffered one because of the strain he was putting his body through at only 31 years of age. I don't think he ever approached that number again, reinventing himself as a physical spoiler and conservative pin point puncher. He certainly messed himself up at a young age and it cost him his title against an inferior opponent and nearly cost him his career.

-Well, he gained weight with age, and its going to be a gradual breakdown. Moorer, Bowex3, Mercer all threw a higher volume of punches than Holyfield in their meetings. Certainly a huge drop off from the volume puncher CW or even the Dokes fight. I can't see that version of Holyfield nearly dying while trying to keep up with Michael Moorer.

 

Well, well well! Imagine mcgrain being wrong? :good

Holyfeild altered his pace to accommodate the artificial weight and size. To be fair his punch totals were still very high but this does not tell the whole story because they were thrown in bursts of action. He had to recharge for periods to catch his breath after exerting himself to such an extent that he could not finish a man off without taking a break. It cost him the third Bowe fight.

I stand by the fact that against men closer to his natural size holyfeild would be better served coming in at a weight that best produced a steady workrate rather than the interval workrate he was reduced to when he was carrying so much artificial size.

 

I am not so sure there was naturally much difference in size between Charles and Holyfeild. I think Charles was still in high school around the time he turned pro where as Evander was no longer a "growing boy" in the Olympics. I think evander was around 169lb as a pro debutant. Charles was around the same weight two years into his career but at the same age the weight differential was negligible. Left to mother nature I don't think there was any real sze difference between Charles and holyfeild.

 

Uppercut combination sends Rocky down. But up gets Marciano! These recuperative powers have been synonymous with the unbeaten fighter! Holyfield may stop him. Marciano firing back , catches Holyfield with a huge left hook but Holyfield shrugs it off as if to say come on bring it on . What a fight we got here at Caesars Palace!

 

-A volume puncher but maybe not on the high end. Of his opponents that went the distance: Moorer, Bowe, and Mercer all threw more punches, and the only two he outworked were in their 40s.

-It's mute because this fight can't really be used to point to his effectiveness at fighting at higher weights as the performance saw him injured, dehyrdated, and briefly retired at only 31 years of age with a heart condition. And we are pretty sure he was juicing or using HGH.

-Not enough to match Moorer's punch output and I don't tihnk he's ever been labeled a volume puncher.

-Retiring with heart "irregularities" at 31 years of age will certainly do that as well.

-Will there be a fan man to give him over 20 minutes of rest as well? And as I recall Bowe still came on stronger in the later rounds with Evander fading out. A fat Bowe benefited from the rest too. I like Holyfield of the Qawi fight for work rate, and really with all his weight gain, Evander never evolved into a knockout puncher, he got physically stronger in the clinch but with diminishing returns on his stamina, speed, and mobility.

And counting punches is only part of it, Evander did start to struggle to stay on his toes and keep moving when needed for a full fight. This so called "spurt fighting" usually saw him frequently stop to take breaks by leaning inside with his guard up. This saw him get into trouble against Bowe, Foreman, and Cooper.

 

I think the busiest heavyweight of all time was the holyfield that fought qawi.

 

-I'm not convinced of Bowe II Holyfield's stamina because he got a 20 minute rest. Maricano still had a 100+ punch round or two against Kockell, and several in the 80s.

-Bowe was fat from too much birthday cake, so not surprising there. Even at his worst, he always had more in the tank than Evander or anybody at the time anyway. Really the busiest HW of the early 90s.

-The observations on Holyfield are not an exaggerated flaw contrasted to an improbable fantasy that never existed. Holyfield the CW did exist. I mean..this is what is being compared. CW Holyfield vs HW Holyfield. There is no question which one was more active, and I'm frankly surprised this is being disputed.

-And god help anyone if Maricano gets a 20 minute rest late in the fight.