Rocky Marciano vs Evander Holyfield

-They made an effort to stay warmed up but exactly the point though, we don't know for certain how much it hurt or helped either man. Its a freaky event and difficult to guage their actual stamina as a result. I don't think Evander had to work as hard regardless as Bowe was rather ponderous in that one.

-I counted Charles/Marciano round 15 myself some time ago as I really didn't believe it but found it was roughly around that total.

 

Whilst I disagree with the outcomes of some of them, you do make solid cases for your picks. A good read.:good

 

I'm a legit 6'1" and I'm usually the tallest or at least one of the tallest guys in the room... you must be hanging out with NBA players. Who gives a **** how tall he is? He's taller than Marciano was, taller than Charles, taller than Walcott, and even taller than Louis (who I've seen listed as tall as 6'2"). Holyfield is/was a bigger guy than Louis, get over it already!

 

Holyfield fought as a LHW in the 1984 Olympics and had to cut weight to make 178 Lbs. The same weigh class Ali fought in back in the 1960 Olympics. Holyfield weighed in at Lbs. for his first pro fight he was 177 1/2 Lbs. so technically he was never really a LHW pro. He quickly reached the CW limit of 190 Lbs. and was 200 Lbs. between CW title defenses... and totally ripped. Natural? Who knows? What do you consider natural? Lifting weights and consuming a lot of protein is natural in my opinion. HGH, steroids, etc, not so much. Holyfield had the frame for 220 solid Lbs. He would have still looked good at 230 Lbs. Charles, Walcott, and even Louis did not have the frame for that. Holyfield is the bigger guy gentlemen. Wider across the back/chest (more space between the shoulders), bigger chest, bigger neck, bigger arms (even before he turned pro). His body fat% was about 2? at CW. Yeah. he added some muscle when he moved up, but he also changed his bodyfat % slightly. I know plenty of guys about 6'2" and 230Lbs. They aren't fat but they don't look like Holyfield either. If they cut down to 7 or 8% bodyfat they'd barely even be HWs. My point? Holyfield is bigger than these guys too.

 

Evander was 22years old when he turned pro, about the same age Muhammad Ali was when he was already a 210 lb world champion without the advances of "modern training."

Evander was nothing more than a light heavyweight when he turned pro. He was able to bulk up only because of "modern training", losing his hair in the process.

At 6'1" holyfeild would slim down between fights.

 

holyfield even at cruiserweight still holyfield

 

Ok, you won't be sold on Evander. The truth is, he was what he was... juicing or not, if he was cheating, he got away with it. However he did it, the end result was almost a 20" neck, a 46" chest, and 17" biceps with just a 32" waist. The same size chest and arms as Lennox Lewis, his neck is actually thicker. Holyfield was way more ripped than Lewis though.

Look , plenty of dudes have a 46" chest... but it would only be about 40" if they really worked out.

If you wont to erase what he did because you think he was cheating, that's fine, but you need to do the same for a lot of fighters. What about dirty fighters too? Plenty of those old timers fought dirty.

 

look, I like EH but he was one of the dirtiest fighters of modern times, he used his head like no other in his day (see Rahman fight)

 

Do you think all that would help him fight at a steady pace? because I dont. This is what made evander a spurt fighter. That kind of training suited bursts of explosive activity followed by periods of statuesque resting.

If you gave a 20" neck and 46" chest 17" arms with all the extra weight that "artficial girth" gave Holyfeild and put it on Ezzard Charles ....It would slow Charles down too. Charles would not do as well as he did against Marcianos steady pressure and two handed power if Ezz was also slowed down like that.

 

It makes me laugh when people refer to Charles being a lightheavyweight? He only had about 15 fights at light heavy. He was only fighting lightheavyweights for about a year and a half?

He had more fights as a middleweight? His first 35 fights were fought as a middleweight? Fair enough he scored 3 defining wins over Archie Moore as a light heavy but he had had about 40 fights against heavyweights prior to his 2 fights against Marciano (including a very respectable reign as champion himself?) and would have a further 23 - 65 fights at heavyweight (including a reign as champion) for me makes him a career heavyweight?

As a heavy he beat Randolph, Elmer Ray, Jimmy Bivins, Joe Baksi, Maxim, Walcott, Lesnevich, Valentino, Beshore, Lee Oma, Joe Louis, Reynolds, Brion, Harrison, Wallace, Satterfield, Norkus? Basically cleaned out the division?

Archie as well had had about 45 fights against heavyweights himself prior to fighting Marciano and would have a further 35 after which is more heavyweight experience than most heavyweights amass these days in their whole careers?

 

This is certainly true. History or its writers remember Ezzard Charles as the greatest Light Heavyweight of All Time. But it was also only a small amount of fights in a two year window that still saw him mostly fight HWs.

 

Calling Ezzard Charles a career light heavyweight was a misrepresentation on my part. But having 35 fights at Middle weight and 15 fights at light heavy, still amounts to 50 pro bouts that weren't fought at heavyweight. Ad to that, he was relatively small for the standards of most heavyweights during the period that he did frequent the division and that he wouldn't even be considered a heavy in more modern times, and it makes the argument kind of moot. These weren't big men Rocky was fighting and I think its highly questionable to say that they were prime. Yes, Charles managed to capture the crown and win some 8 heavyweight title fights. A huge accomplishment by all standards. But I am apt to thinking that the success that he, Moore, and Walcott had was largely attributed to the division going through a period of decline. Not to say it was "weak", but not altogether strong either. Turn things back by about 8-10 years, and those guys would have had to go through a prime Joe Louis. Turn things ahead a decade or more and they'd be facing the likes of Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali.

 

That's not what I saw at all. Also, in his prime, Vander never stopped training for lengthy spells.