Rocky Marciano vs Evander Holyfield

Lavorante was not rated when he lost to Moore he had recently lost to George Logan. Rademacher had lost his last two fights by ko when he faced Moore being stopped by Logan in2 rds and Doug Jones in 5 rds, he was only 3 fights away from retirement, and was not rated when Moore stopped him . I don't believe Rademacher was ever rated as a matter of fact.

 

McVey wrong again.

Lavorante was rated #4 by RING in February 1962 issue.

The Logan fight didn't effect his standing as it appeared to be a hometown decision amidst a hot run. Other articles I found posted on Sad doboxing.com still describe him as #4 by both RING and the NBA heading into the Moore fight.

"The Young Gaucho vs. The Old Man"

Alejandro Lavorante {Age; 25 years, 5 months} would be involved in his most important fight of his career.

Alejandro had a record of 19-2-0 {15 KO's}, and was now ranked #4 Ring Magazine. The young, athletic
and handsome Argentinian was regarded as one of the Top 'hitters' in the Heavyweight Division.

Both of Alejandro's '2' Decision losses were 'disputed' and highly debatable, and both were in the other fighter's
hometown.

Alejandro had a busy year in 1961, with '11-Bouts, going 10-1-0 {8 KO's}.

The tall and lanky Argentinian was coming off an 'impressive' win {KO 2} over dangerous 'Philadelphia Bomber' -
Von Clay 3-Months earlier {December 29, 1961}.

Paul 'Pinky' George {Manager} >
"This fight will give us 'National' recognition. A win, and we're home-free for a Championship bout. Even a loss
will not hurt Alex. He's the most exciting Heavyweight fighter out there."

"Alex has been working hard. He's out at 6:00 AM every morning running. He will 'end' Archie's career by
stopping him. It will be by a Knockout."



Alejandro Lavorante
Nickname... 'Alex' ~ 'Lavo' ~ 'Cobra'
Age........... 25 years, 5 months
Height....... 6' 3 1/2"
Reach........ 73"
Weight....... 211 lbs.
Record....... 19-2-0 {15 KO's}
Rank.......... #4 NBA / #4 Ring Magazine

Archie Moore
Nickname... 'The Mongoose' ~ 'The Old Man'
Age............ 45 years, 8 months
Height........ 5' 11"
Reach......... 75"
Weight........ 197 lbs.
Record........ 188-22-9 {128 KO's}
Rank........... * Light Heavyweight ~ 'Ring Magazine'

The Odds-Makers had the bout set with Archie Moore as a 6-5 Betting-Favorite.

Jack Kearns {Advisior for Archie Moore}
"I expect Archie to come in around 192 lbs. The man is 'ageless' {45 years, 8 months}. He'll lure this kid in,
and take him apart. We're not worried about his height or power. He doesn't have the experience yet, and
that will be his downfall."

Archie Moore >
"He's got youth, but that will work against him. He'll have a lot of energy early, but he'll wear down. I've
seen him fight before, and he usually gasses out after 5-Rounds."

"After this fight, I'll probably drop back down to 175 lbs. {Light-Heavyweight} and defend my Title against
NBA Middleweight Champion - Gene Fullmer. Then I'll go after the Heavyweight Championship."

 

Even after the brutal Moore loss, Lavorante was still rated.

Ring Ratings for Sept 1962

WC: Floyd Patterson
1: Sonny Liston
2: Eddie Machen
3: Zora Folley
4: Ingemar Johansson
5: Archie Moore
6: Cleveland Williams
7: Robert Cleroux
8: Henry Cooper
9: Cassius Clay
10: Alejandro Lavorante

 

Radmacher was an Olympic Gold medallist and a headliner in his own right. He beat Chuvalo who was always fringe level at worst.

Lavorante had never been stopped before, he knocked out a solid gate keeper in zora Foley.

Roger Richer was Californian state champion, he went on to beat Henry Cooper. Had a rating at least in the future. If Terrell is a good win for Williams in advance of him getting a rating then so too is Reicher for Archie Moore.

These heavyweights were better than average fighters. Either world title chalengers, Olympians, or top prospects and fringe guys who beat top four contenders at some point. good wins. If you lined the same guys up for any unknown heavyweight to beat they would have achieved a Ring Magazine rating with these same wins. Only a good fighter could do it.

This is Exceptional for a light heavyweight ATG campaigning outside of his natural class years after Marciano beat him. If Moore was past his best against Marciano how did he get past those guys?

 

Tyson was past his prime in that fight, and you said it best about Marciano.... Rocky had steady tempo, Tyson had Burst.

Burst fighters are not going to take out Holyfield. He can endure that.

Marciano is a bigger better version of Dwight Qawi, That was a war. It is also how I see the fight going but in favor of Marciano. In fact, I see Marciano KOing Evander.

It really depends on when you consider Holyfield's prime was. The version that defeated Douglas was incredible. but, I still give it to Marciano.

 

I was relying on the Rings ratings for 1962.
.Thank you for correcting me .You will note I take it with a deal more grace than yourself when you are proved to be in error.

 

I'm comparing them as heavyweights, not during Holyfield's cruiser days.
I don't see Marciano koing Holyfield and I see Tyson stopping Marciano just my opinion.

 

Audley Harrison was a gold medallist it means exactly what?
Yes Lavorante had ONE good win, name another?
Rademacher was never rated.

I never mentioned Terrell:huh
I don't see what Rischer has to do with this discussion:huh
However , since you brought him up ,Williams ko'd him in 3 rds
.
As to rankings if Williams had faced most of those mentioned, I feel he would have won and hence been highly rated. I think Williams ko's :
Cooper
London
Erskine
Folley
Harris
Rademacher
Lavorante
50/50 Johannson
50/50 Patterson

 

I'm taking Evander by decision.

He cannot hope to survive a sustained firefight. However, I believe the jarring power, coupled with the obvious speed deficit, would eventually conspire against the Rock, limiting the engagements to strategic skirmishes in favor of Holyfield.

A right at any time could put a wrench in the mechanism, jeopardizing Holyfield's good work.

 

McVey, your actually debating with a first rate whinny weasel w that pond scum. Don't be surprised. :nut

 

Bowe, Lewis, and Tyson all hit much harder than Rocky could ever imagine hitting. atsch

Is this some joke? Rocky isn't even the same area code skill wise with the all time greats.

 

He and I had a difference of opinion some months ago I'd put it behind me but he obviously hasn't ,since then he avidly follows my posts,hoping I'll trip up ,which of course from time to time I do , sad man . Not a mongoose, more a weasel ,as you say.

 

Jersey Joe Walcott?? Ezzard Charles?? Archie Moore?? All superior in terms of skills no?? Holyfield was not really a fighter known for skills, he was not elusive?? He was always there to be hit?? In terms of skills I'd say someone like LaStarza was a better pure boxer than Evander?? :huh

 

Holy didn't beat Qawi with ease though?? Are we saying Rocky does any worse than Qawi?? Jeez you have a seriously bad issue with some of the great champions in history then? Does you top 10 just consist of fighter post 1980's? Holy went to the absolute brink with Qawi? Are we saying that Qawi is better than Rocky Marciano here?? Jeez we seriously have to reassess the whole of boxing history then? Does Qawi beat Ali?? atsch

 

Walcott said himself he never felt better than the night he fought Marciano so he was in as good a form as he ever was - the films play this out for me too he was amazing in that fight?

First Ez fight was probably one of the most amazing performances of Charles' career also?? :huh

And Archie Moore also listed the Marciano fight amongst the top 3 fights of his career also so I not sure about Rocky never fighting anyone when they were at their best? When those fought amongst their very best fights against him??