Rocky Marciano vs. FOTC Muhammad Ali

Bingo. A lot of good points in this thread. Frazier close the ring a little quicker than Marciano and is a tad bit faster. But Marciano's stamina and non-stop punching ability would be wreckage for this Ali. Why? Because he layed on the ropes too much. This version was a bit overlooking Frazier and was on the ropes to take a breather. Marciano would pummel Ali worse on the ropes than Frazier did. Granted, Frazier may fight out of the center of the ring better than Marciano, Marciano would captilize with Ali on the ropes much better than Frazier did. Marciano attacking out of all angles would and could also confuse Ali very much. Ali would indeed by badly pummeled. If his arms were sore from Marciano with 10+ years off in his late 40's than imagine what a prime, dedicated, and hungry Marciano would do. This Ali is just too idle.

I do wonder if Marciano drops Ali. Frazier has patience and is a tad bit more accurate than Rocky. However, I feel that Marciano capitilizing with Ali on the ropes more would be better for him on the scoring.

Well said. Marciano's not only unending stamina but better two handed attack would also be far more effective for fighting Ali while he was on the ropes.

Something also not mentioned is I believe that Marciano could take Ali's punches better than Joe. Joe was a machine that night, but I don't believe that 9th round with Frazier getting caught and hurt would've happened quite like that, but I could be wrong...

 

People like to bring up the Frazier fight, but what about Marciano losing most of the early rounds to both Walcott and Charles? Marciano didnt beat Charles by that much and had to score a KO coming from behind. FOTC Ali is faster, rangier, stronger, bigger, fitter with a better chin than both these men, plus closer to his prime than both of them too

I don't see why a slower, smaller, Marciano does better than Frazier just because he was more right hand orientated given Ali was more open to left hooks than right hands anyway. Marciano is also probably easier to hit because of his slowness. Marciano fans are underrating what Frazier did here and assuming their man can replicate it

 

You couldn't have said it better.

 

The Walcott fight was a tough fight. Walcott was constantly beating Marciano to the punch and Marciano couldn't have figured out his cutesy unpredictable style. Add that to the fact that Marciano was blind for 3-4 rounds I'd suspect that Walcott should be up. The first Charles fight was Marciano all the way. Ali is bigger but stronger than Walcott? Certainly doesn't hit anywhere near as hard in my eyes. Ali of 71 was worse than Ali of 73-74 so so much for that statement. In terms of age, yes, but in terms of his conditioning, timing for that fight? No way...

I think you're just overrating this version of Ali. Ali was on the ropes way too much. And he seems to contently put himself in this situation. Why? And how does he win doing it that much. This would be incredibly tailor-made for Marciano. Marciano would be fresher and throwing more than Frazier did toward the end of the fight in which Ali was dead tired. The only question is how does Marciano corner or get Ali to those ropes more than Ali would like. Ali is going to those ropes for breathers. He got tired and idle after pouring on Frazier and not knocking him out. But if Marciano can get him there more and really get at him towards the later stages than Ali is in trouble. I honestly don't see how a TKO for Marciano is too far-fetched in this case. Based on THIS Ali. Ali said he overlooked and wasn't prepared enough for Frazier. He was also off. Walcott and Charles were at least in much better condition against Marciano which is a must when fighting the Rock.

 

If Ali stays on the ropes as much as he did in FOTC there's no way he wins. So the question is really if he would spend as much time there against Marciano. Tough call.

 

Powerpuncher, you are right about the first part....but wrong here. Marciano was up 6 rounds to 1 on all 3 scorecards after 7 rounds in the 2nd charles fight. The fight was not close.

 

Completely agree.

Ali has more margin for error against Rock than Joe.

I see FOTC Ali as a clear decision winner against Rocky.

 

This is what I don't get. How does a prime Ali poll with Ali being quicker, faster, better timing, better conditioned with his punch output and ability to dance much longer go virtually 50/50 in a poll against a FOTC Frazier. But a lay on the ropes and not peak conditioned Ali that's idle for large amount of the second half of the fight on the ropes with his back near the ropes and not fighting in the center of the ring win a clear decision against a prime Rocky? The double standards here are ridiculous.

 

You rarely ever give an analysis for fights. Without it, all I see is a pro-Joe and blatant Joe fan. That's not to say I'm not pro my favorite fighters but at least I give input. And the time I remember you having done so you said something like "Joe is better than Rocky at virtually everything." With opinions like this I wouldn't give Rock a chance in heck against a FOTC Ali. Wasn't it you that said he "Hit harder, better stamina, and more durable" In that Frazier v Marciano thread?

 

Right, but we have to credit Rocky for being able to captilize on the ropes better than Joe did. The thing is, does Rocky get Ali to the ropes in nearly close effectiveness that Joe did? I say maybe, but I also don't think it matters to much. Ali was throwing far too many punches early and didn't KO Joe. He ain't going to KO Rocky. And he was really winded down the second half of the fight. He threw back and tried scoring but Joe wins the majority of the rounds. The thing is, this is where Rocky punishes him. There is not a better fighter in the second half of a 15 round fight than Marciano (Arguably). And Ali was idle on the ropes far too much in that 2nd half of the fight. Marciano would make him pay dearly in this situation.

I do think stylistically that Joe has some advantages over Rocky against an Ali, but I feel Rocky has some benefits too. I'll say this though. I do believe Joe Frazier might have a better chance against a prime Ali than Rocky would. Mostly because of his footspeed, pace, and handspeed. The thing is, though, Rocky can take it and will get his licks in eventually. However, post stripped Ali has tons of of trouble with Rocky. And this version with overlooked confidence and troubling conditioning is in some serious dangerous water.

 

That quote should read 'had to come from behind against Walcott', I got distracted and didnt finnish the sentence, Charles just wasnt Charles in the rematch but the first 1 against a past prime Charles was close

 

It's important to note that Walcott had a cutesy unpredictable style that was tough to figure out. Marciano was also blinded for 3-4 of the middle rounds so I'd suspect Walcott to be up.

 

1. I thought Ali won the majority of the early-mid rounds against Frazier, people forget it wasn't that wide a decision and Frazier himself was hurt early. Ali was actually going for the KO imo and started too fast, when he slowed Frazier could start timing those left hooks, now Marciano just doesnt have the same left hook and Ali's weakness is a susceptability to left hooks, the right hand won't land as much as the left hook would.

2. Physically Ali was better in 70 than 73-4, he fought the wrong fight against Frazier though. I still think he is overall much better than the past prime Charles 1/Walcott that Marciano had trouble with.

3. You're forgetting Ali fought very very smartly off the ropes, yes Marciano would cause some damage on the ropes, but more than Frazier? I don't think so, he's smaller, slower, less intense, shorter reach and doesnt have the same left hook or head movement. You talk as if Ali just lay on the ropes got hit and didnt throw his own punches, Ali threw allot of leather.

Another problem Marciano will have is his susceptability to cuts and Ali's technique of skim punching to purposely open cuts. By no means do I think Ali completely dominates Marciano, he wouldn't, it would be a hard hard fight for both men, but for the stylistic reasons I outlined I see Ali winning through in a 9-6 type UD