Rocky Marciano vs Jack Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Oct 11, 2011.


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  1. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd pick Marciano on toughness, chin, stamina, and that amazing will to win.

    But it'd be a war, a classic, and very close. It's not unfair to say Dempsey takes it.
     
    MagnaNasakki, Oct 12, 2011
    MagnaNasakki, Oct 12, 2011
    #46
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Actually I do question this. Rocky fought 3 men Joe Louis, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe Walcott who are rated # 1, # 4, and # 66 on Ring Magazines top 100 punchers of all time list. Who did Dempsey fight that made the list? Who did Dempsey fight that made the top 10 in this list?

    Dempsey's reputation is built on beating untalented big oafs. Were any of them actually skilled punchers like a Jersey Joe Walcott? No way.

    Furthermore...Louis, Moore, Walcott, and Layne actually landed punches on Marciano to test his chin. Fulton, Willard, Morris didn't land anything. The only big man Dempsey fought who landed was Firpo, and he knocked Dempsey out of the ring. Dempsey had to be saved by the typewriter. How embarrassing. Marciano would have obliterated Firpo.


    I submit Marciano fought the much more skilled fighters, and the better all around punchers.


    Marciano also fought bigger punchers than Jeffries too. Jeffries fought a bunch of super middleweights he outweighed by 40-50lb.


    Dempsey was 32 years old when he lost to Tunney. Marciano was 32 years old when he whipped Archie Moore.
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    #47
  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    S, cute your statement that Dempsey was 32 years old,when he lost to Tunney. Cute. Why do you omit the fact that as you of all people know ,Dempsey was out of the ring for THREE years, without a TUNE_UP
    bout, against an absolute prime Gene Tunney. Yes Dempsey was 32, but a RUSTY slow 32 year old shell of himself, whilst the late starting Marciano
    fighting only eight years, was in his prime, fighting regularly,and his opponent Archie Moore was in 1955, an old FORTY TWO year old battle worn fighter... So S these are the true facts,between the Dempsey of Tunney, and the Marciano of Archie Moore... Big, big difference, truth be known...
     
    burt bienstock, Oct 12, 2011
    burt bienstock, Oct 12, 2011
    #48
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    battle worn yet running on the best form of his entire career though. archie was the youngest 42 year old in boxing.

    Aside from dempsey I think moore beat better and a lot more hevyweights than tunney did.

    You are quite right though, dempsey was too inactive at the time tunney got him.
     
    choklab, Oct 12, 2011
    choklab, Oct 12, 2011
    #49
  5. 1899sharkey

    1899sharkey Boxings golden age Full Member

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    Dempsey on cuts in 12.
     
    1899sharkey, Oct 12, 2011
    1899sharkey, Oct 12, 2011
    #50
  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I wonder if you believe what you write sometimes or just like spinning wheels ...

    Archie Moore was forty at least and an all time puncher as a light heavyweight.

    Joe Louis was a shell of the man who dominated the division in the late 30's ... he had three stoppage victories in nine fights going into the Marciano bout and had not KO'ed any of them.

    The Ring Magazine may have rated Joe Walcott at # 66 and he was a sharp puncher but he is on very few all time top heavyweight puncher lists and he was the biggest hitter Rocky ever fought and was 38 at the time.

    Rex Layne , please.

    Marciano was an active 32. Dempsey was a highly inactive 32. How do you make such a comparison and expect to be taken seriously ? How do you leave out the boxing 101 obvious inactivity ? :verysad
     
    he grant, Oct 12, 2011
    he grant, Oct 12, 2011
    #51
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    A. Archie Moore was 38, not over 40.

    B. Archie Moore's record against men above 200lb is 22-1 with 19 knockouts. This puts an end to your point about Archie being a light-heavyweight puncher only.

    C. Archie knocked out this man Bob Baker
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDLw7VtqVaw[/ame]

    Baker would have toyed with those big oafs of the 20s Willard, Firpo, Morris.



    A. Power is the last thing to leave a fighter, correct? He still packed a solid punch in his left hook.
    B. Your statement above is incorrect. Louis did knock someone out.
    C. Louis was 6'2 215lb and would have won 10 out of 10 rounds even at age 37 if he got put in the ring with an amateur like Firpo. He would have given Firpo a jabbing clinic.

    Here is Louis at age 36
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRsAbgV3tdk[/ame]

    This Louis would have steamrolled through the 1920s big gooftroopers like willard, Firpo, morris

    Who did Dempsey ever fight that is on an all time heavyweight puncher list? Please don't make me laugh by saying Luis Firpo :lol:

    What great puncher did Dempsey ever fight that tagged his chin as often as Walcott tested Marciano's? Dempsey got rocked badly by georges carpentier and jack sharkey.

    Rex Layne was 34-1 with 25 knockouts at the time he fought Marciano. 22 years old. Like him or not, the papers described him as having a "powerful right hand". Layne wasn't a world beater, but he was better than most of the trash Dempsey fought in his career.



    Just admit two things

    1. You don't like the fighters from Marciano's era

    2. Your a closet Jack Dempsey fan

    If your going to bring up age, perhaps you shouldn't be so selective. You say Moore is "40" without mentioning he went 45-1 in his last 46 fights prior to fighting Marciano. You say Marciano was a "young" man fighting old men, but in reality his style was not suited to last his early 30s and he was physically breaking down by 1956 when he retired at age 33.
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    #52
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Can anyone name me a big fighter of Dempsey's era who had even close to as good of a jab as the big men of Marciano's era(Joe Louis, Bob Baker, Nino Valdes)

    I don't think it's even close. Big men of Dempsey's era didn't know how to throw a good fluid powerful jab(Maybe wills was the exception, but Dempsey ducked him anyway). Had Dempsey fought a 37 year old 6'2 215lb Joe Louis, he would have gotten his face tatooed by jabs until knocking him out. It would have been much different than getting in the ring with useless 220lb punching bags like Firpo, Fulton, Morris, and Willard. Dempsey would have been shocked to see how much harder it is to fight a 6'2 215lb man who actually has skills and knows how to jab.
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    #53
  9. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Baker reminds me of a better skilled and faster version of Tim Witherspoon with quite a bit more stamina
     
    Bummy Davis, Oct 12, 2011
    Bummy Davis, Oct 12, 2011
    #54
  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
    Russell, Oct 12, 2011
    Russell, Oct 12, 2011
    #55
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I wouldn't go that far, but he certainly was a much more talented and fundamentally better fighter than Jess Willard or Luis Firpo.
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    #56
  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is a great match-up.

    I think highly of both men.

    Both Dempsey and Marciano got off the floor to win.

    Both men were devastating punchers.

    One would think Dempsey would start fast and Marciano would finish strong but I think the key elements in this fight would be Marciano's unorthodox style of punching.

    Marciano was the better man at fighting extremely skilled fighters like Walcott, Charles,Lastarza and Moore but he also went head to head with sluggers at various stages of his career. 6"4 Carmine Vingo went right at Marciano and almost lost his life for it. Rex Layne a 34-1-1 puncher heralded as the next Dempsey by Nat Fleischer and who beat every man that beat/drew him, was destroyed and ruined by Rocky.

    Dempsey did look great vs the big tough Willard, he was an explosive fighter in this fight and his power was fantastic. The Firpo fight he got caught but rebounded and recovered quick for a KO victory.

    This is a tough fight and Dempsey would land early in the 1st 2 rounds but he would also be hit and he would feel Marciano's power and both men would recognize the power of each other.

    I think it boils down to a battle of attrition and both men may hit the floor early but the battle would be decided in the Championship rounds, somewhere between 8 and 15 rds. I think Marciano would prevail in a war of wars but his stamina and unorthodox punches catch a arm weary Dempsey with a punch he does not see for a clean KO finish for Marciano
     
    Bummy Davis, Oct 12, 2011
    Bummy Davis, Oct 12, 2011
    #57
  13. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    A top-notch breakdown. Moore was not merely a LHW puncher. Seriously, Moore was better than any puncher Dempsey ever fought except for maybe Firpo. Again, not only is that a maybe, but Firpo was an awful fighter. So who cares.

    Rex Layne would've beaten Firpo for Christ Sakes.

    Great breakdown on Moore's streak prior to the Marciano fight. Sure, age was always going to be a concern for Moore going against Marciano, particular because of Marciano's style. However, Moore was a great fighter, regardless of age.
     
    PetethePrince, Oct 12, 2011
    PetethePrince, Oct 12, 2011
    #58
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I would give Rocky a chance here, but your right. Dempsey had the skill, reach, and speed edge. Chins about even. Cuts not a problem for JD, but a huge one for RM.

    I would guess Dempsey via TKO/KO in the later rounds of a 15 round fight.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2011
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2011
    #59
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Dempsey wins the later rounds? Marciano was at his best late
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Oct 12, 2011
    #60
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