rocky marciano vs jack johnson

How can you compare a 156 pound Langford to a 187 pound Marciano. Langford rose through the ranks and by the time he was 190, he had, as they like to say, excess flesh. Furthermore, the footage we do have of Langford shows him to be more wide open to counters than Marciano, much more wide open. It is a far-fetched comparison.

Meanwhile, as stated earlier, we have closer comparisons to Johnson in Walcott, Lastarza and to a lesser extent Charles.

The knowable's in the Marciano victory scenario dwarf those of the reverse. It simply can not be argued otherwise.

 

you're misunderstanding me. i agree with you. style wise sam and rocky were similar but you can't compare that version of sam to rocky.

 

Those clinches would be hell. I can only imagine Al Weill before the fight.

Eh, so if he's holding can my guy Rocky punch the **** out of him with his freed arm?

Weill basically asked this question to the referee during the Walcott-Marciano I instructions.

 

Good fight. Marciano stopped a well past prime but still clever and still tough Joe Louis. He stopped Jersey Joe Walcott twice. I think Walcott was as good as ever in their first fight, maybe even in the rematch... the fight was too short to tell. He beat a past prime but still very good Ezzard Charles twice, once by KO. He stopped Archie Moore who in my opinion was as good as ever.

I'll go with the man who went 49-0 (43) overall, 7-0 (6) in HW World Title Fights, and 6-0 (5) vs. Hall of Famers. :deal

 

So, we discount Johnson's results against McVey and Langford ,on the grounds that they were not physically mature[neither was Johnson]? Yet factor in Johnson's defeats to Choynski when he was under the light heavyweight limit,and his stoppage defeat to Klondike, when Johnson was 20 years old and weighed around 168lbs? And of course we don't mention that the 20years old Johnson took Klondike to a 20rds draw a few months later.
Ps In Johnson's most emphatic defeat of McVey a 20rds ko, McVey was a couple of weeks younger than Johnson was when he lost to Klondike , the difference being that McVey scaled 205lbs to Johnson's 190lbs whereas Johnson scaled around 168lbs for the Klondike fight, inconvenient fact that eh?
N. B. Mcvey had allready kod Denver Ed Martin ,Fred Russell ,and Kid Carter ,when he was stopped by Johnson. He was a genuine world class fighter.

I must say, this is about as balanced and ,objective an argument as you usually provide.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

You stay in your litttle cocoon of fantasy.
I pass.

 

Tough one to call. I can see reasons for both winning. At the moment,I'm leaning 51/49 towards Johnson outboxing Rocky in a 15 rounder.

 

Jack certainly had the speed, skill and stamina, but would the necessary work rate be there?

While Johnson was decked by Ketchel in a match where he was clearly carrying Stan to exhibit their bout, it also looked to me on the film as though the Assassin was genuinely trying to win throughout, not as though there was a mutual agreement to extend the performance for nickelodeon revenue. I suspect Jack claimed a sucker punch to save face from the knockdown Ketchel inflicted on him, and it certainly would be consistent with his later claim that he took a dive in Havana.

Of course Johnson would not be taking such liberties with Marciano as he did with Ketchel. But I do believe Rocky's aggression might send Jack into a defensive shell which could cost Lil' Artha' over 15. Walcott was trying to knock Rocky out in their first match, and built up a solid lead as a byproduct of his efforts.

Johnson was probably at his most aggressive on film in Havana against a Willard who played defense in the first 15 rounds, biding time for the much later knockout which eventually came his way. The only time Rocky was ever even photographed covering up on the ropes like that (at least in images I've seen) was early in the first Charles fight, and these must have been only momentary snippets of action. (Nonetheless, it is a fact that Marciano actually spent more time with his back against the ropes than Charles did in this mid ring war.)

Something Johnson was extremely good at was blocking shots. He was known to painfully stop jabs by jamming his fist into an opponent's left bicep, giving some idea of his reflexes and vision. We've seen him rip through multiple right uppercuts in the clinches. He could redirect punches after he started throwing them to successfully connect on targets who had moved to try making them miss. And he was as much a master of balance as any mobile HW Champion ever. But does he neutralize Marciano in the clinches?

Rocky wouldn't stop coming, ever. And put them in a 20, 25 or 45 rounder, and the fanatical Marciano would train accordingly. There's one episode recorded in Skehan's biography where he took a 34 mile walk with a companion-I'm not sure who, maybe Allie Columbo, just to visit at some friend's establishment for a couple of hours, then they began walking back, only to abort by hitchhiking when Rocky's struggling companion begged off. But a round trip hike of 70 miles is Tarahumara material, and Marciano may have been capable of competing in the Leadville 100 at his best conditioned. (Yes, I'm currently reading "Born to Run," picked up at a sterling discount from my local Borders, one of the last in the chain to remain open. Ten chapters in, looks like a good read, well worth the bestseller status it achieved.) That last round of 100 punches in Charles I is obscene for any heavyweight to unload, and betrays that Rocky had actually been pacing himself prior to that explosion of activity. It's just that we never saw him in any other situation where he had just three minutes to let it all hang out.

 

Excellent post. A+.

My wife is reading Born to Run right now. Marciano had that level of fitness. And fitness is another factor here, as Johnson rarely achieved peak form. I am still trying to define what exactly was his peak.

 

The 15th round of Marciano-Charles I gives me goosebumps.

 

Fixed.

Also, I've heard that bit about Johnson jabbing an arm to deaden it before. Any on film evidence of this?

 

Jack himself indicated that he felt his best condition was for Jeffries, and he was certainly ripped with an impressively defined six pack. But he was already 30 years old for Burns, and campaigned rigorously for his shot by tailing Tommy around the world to Rushcutter's Bay. My guess would be Jeffries, with 16 pounds of pure muscle over what he carried for Burns.

 

If there is footage clearly showing this on extant film, it wouldn't be likely to transfer well to youtube. Primitive hand cranked technology would probably have to be scrutinized frame by frame on a film projector to pick up such a quick movement.

 

Johnson by wide UD


Rocky would be a pizzaface in the end.