Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson

Well, then were are talking about a 185 pound or less Johnson. He was 192 for Burns which was caught on film.

More and more my conclusion on all of these match-ups between two greats. One reason they are starting to bore me. These guys were great fighters for a reason beyond their styles and physical make-ups. They were champions at heart. I know that sounds corny, but it's true.

I believe it was called 'do-a-Choysnki' back then.

One thing is certain. Johnson had more balls than any other fighter who lived. He proved that in and out of the ring. He just didn't give a f u c k.

 

I'm picking Marciano by late-round KO. I think Rocky would wear down Johnson and ultimately stop him. It would be a very entertaining fight.

 

Just watched the Layne and Charles 1 fights.You're right!
Layne tied Marciano up until he tired, not being in anywhere the shape Marciano was.
Layne was easy to hit and slower than Rocky, you can see him begin to gass quite early.

Charles gives Marciano a boxing lesson for 6 rds and smothers most of his close work,opening cuts on his eyes.

You have to wonder what the outcome would have been if a younger, less ring worn Charles had been in there?
Charles had no trouble landing the uppercut and nullifying a lot of Rocky's charges and he was nowhere near as strong as Marciano .

I doubt Marciano would have been able to bull Johnson around in the latter parts of a fight , the usual time when Marciano's stamina and condition began to assert itself.
No one out muscled Johnson until Willard walked through hell to prevail after 26 rds against an old Jack.
A prime Johnson may well have been able to match Marciano for strength in the clinches, that would take away a big part of Marciano's game imo.

I also doubt Marciano would land those haymakers on Johnson that he did on Layne and Charles.

I'm more convinced than ever that Johnson has the tools to beat Marciano by dec.

 

Fair enough. Bumping my question to you which is relevant to the thread.

Taking in consideration his opponents age, experience and weight, what in your opinion are Jack Johnson's three best wins? I have no idea which thread you are talking about if you addressed this before. If you can locate it, please copy and past it here.

 

I dont see it as relevant and I addressed it by asking you to keep to the point of the thread.

You've made what, 5 posts on this thread and have yet to address its only two questions , which are 1. Jack Johnson v Rocky Marciano who wins,2 . Why?
Why don't you pay the poster who made the thread the courtesy of answering his questions,instead of trying to initiate more bull****. I'm bored with ripping you to pieces.

 

Does anyone think that Marciano may find Johnson's style alien to him? I don't think Rocky ever fought a guy who even had a remotely similar style, though I could be wrong. Johnson was a strange fighter. Effective but very different.

 

It is relevant in this discussion as Johnson never faced anyone on Marciano's level...at least when that man was in his prime.

When Johnson faced punchers with determination ( Hart who wasn't nearly as good nor hit as Hard ) he lost. When we faced a big puncher in Willard he lost. When he faced Choysnki who was known for power he lost. Notice a trend??? I list another. Griffin could punch a bit. Yep--Johnson lost here too.

IMO, Rocky is a better puncher than all four guys, more active, and had the better chin over Hart, Griffin, and Choynski for sure.

I think your just too risk adverse to list Johnson's three best wins.

Your double standards continue. You question Rocky's best wins. Fine. What about Johnson's. You can't even list them in this thread for a debate. How weak. Please spare me with your I'm bored antics. Clearly you reply back...just not with questions asked directly to you.

-M

 

Start your own thread instead of hijacking this one, then you can argue with yourself.

 

OK so how much weight did Jeffries lose 80lbs and he was actually off for 6years and 1month without a tune up and went 15 rounds with Johnson. Funny but an active Johnson get Flat KO's by Jess Willard at the age of 35

Marciano was only a year and 9months younger than Charles 32 who just KO'd Satterfield and Wallace and Walcott was 38 but an active Champion. Lastarza was about 4 years younger than Marciano and Rex Layne who had beaten everyone that beat him was 34-1-1 but 5 years younger than Rocky.

Bottom line is Marciano fought the best as Champion, Johnson drew the color line. Marciano was a different breed of swarming Banger, work-rate, pressure and power and an awkwardness than did not exist in Johnson's day....Johnson was tough and mean and skilled but could not hold off Marciano, this is not 170 lb Chonski or the 5'11 Marvin Hart or the 162lb Philadelphia Jack O'Brien , this would be 188lbs of Marciano that would be battering Jack's arms,body and head with savage intent...Marciano proved himself vs the best boxer/punchers of his day and they were of the modern genre and IMO at an advanced age of Boxing history that surpasses Johnson era overall

 

good point but lets reverse that was there anyone like Marciano in Johnson's era and Marciano was the rhythm breaking king with unorthodox power in both hands with relentless stamina and will to win

 

Working long ass days so don't have a lot of time to rewatch fights… but watched some Layne rounds and read a couple next day accounts. Layne said he had trained very, very hard. Marciano's tactic was to get inside early and do his initial damage, which he did. Then in the 5th he pulled outside and started winging punches, which came to success in the 6th. It was all by Goldman's design. Layne also said Marciano was hard to hit inside. And methinks Layne slowed down because he was getting beaten up badly and quickly. It was only 5 rounds before he was pretty much done. And his excuse, in fact, was that he worked too hard preparing for the fight.

 

You don't know what awkwardness or styles existed in Johnson's time simply because much of it was unfilmed especially as exhibited by the coloured boys.


Johnson could have put Jeffries away earlier ,that is my opinion, he did not go after him until 10rds had gone by .It is also the refereeTex Rickard's opinion, and Bob Fitzsimmons's who was ringside and stated flatly that Johnson could have stopped Jeffries whenever he wanted to .
During the 7th round Jim Corbett told Jack Jeffries."your brothers licked", what shall we do?

Johnson was 37 , not 35 when he lost to Willard after 26 rds, the referee Jack Welch stated that after 20 rds he would have given a decision to Johnson.

Johnson was only a couple of years younger than Jeffries if you want to go strictly by age as a yardstick
Unlike Marciano who retired in his prime ,and hence never had to face up and coming challengers when he himself was past his best,Johnson in his late 30's was still champ and defending against bigger younger challengers and over much longer distances than Marciano ever fought.. Johnson beat 6.3.5" 224lbs Pat Lester over 15rds when he was 48 years old. It might have led to a drastic re-evaluation of Marciano had he continued fighting into his late 30's, at 37, Johnson's age when he took on the giant ,he would be faced with.
Patterson
Machen
Folley
Johannson
Valdes
Liston

His record might have looked a bit different today I think.

Lastarza was a carefully managed fighter who did not possess power.
Their are many significant names missing on his ledger.
Layne was a poorman's Marciano , but slower and easier to hit. Jack Johnson fought more big heavyweights than any champion before him and for many years to follow. The best men Marciano fought were certainly at an "advanced age"
Walcott was 38 and 39, Moore was 42 and Charles was 33 and 34[Dont say he wasn't much older tham Marciano , in ring mileage he was years older.] Johnson was a super middleweight when he lost to Choynski. The O Brien thing was a meaningless 6 rounder no dec .
According to Adam and the best referee ,[George Siler ,]of the time Johnson deserved the dec over Hart.

Your serve!

 

Then its checkmate once again, only this time you aren't even going to bother and play. Also its not hiijacking. My questions had everything to do with this thread.

I think Charles, Moore, and Walcott defeated are better than anyone Johnson beat as they were seasoned fighters, not 19-20 year old men, or people who had a losing or .500 type of record when Johnson beat them.

 

When Johnson was matched vs. men who could hit that were not green or old, he often came up on the losing end in the ring.

Examples: Choysnki, Griffin, Hart, and Willard. If you consider an ex match, then Gunboat Smith who for a while was the best white hope had Johnson down and seeing stars.

Marciano is much better than all of those guys. I think he hits harder, had a better work rate, and outside of Willard might have had the best chin of the names I mentioned too.

While I do think Johnson's defensive nature and antics could give Rocky fits until he adjusts, I also think Rocky had no problem hitting anyone in the arms and shoulders. Marciano welcomed exchanges, Johnson unless the other guy was on the way out did not.

Johnson did not hit hard enough to stop Marciano with one or two big shots, but Rocky could stop Johnson with one or two big shots.

While Johnson was a good in-fighter, so was Rocky. Rocky might miss a lot, but he keeps firing, and Johnson's low guard and somewhat stationary stance means hes getting hit.

More active, hits harder, and more durable, Rocky wins here. I would predict a mid to late round type of TKO.

 

I'm getting swayed more to a close and extremely grueling fight with damage being done from both sides. Still have Marciano the victor but I think Johnson will have more than a few tricks up his proverbial sleeve, not that Marciano took much notice of trickery… see Walcott, Charles and Moore.