Rocky Marciano vs Joe Frazier

Nope, I find him overrated. Very impressive on film but against weak comp, never got up off the canvas to win, etc.

 

In their first fight, Walcott was physically bullying Marciano. He was beating his ass. Then Marciano began to fight dirty. Headbutts, elbows and whatever else that would help turn the tables. So no, Marciano couldn't manhandle all of his opponents.

 

That entire paragraph was wrong but ok

You can plain as day see who's pushing who back in the clinches, who's marching forward, and Marciano didn't cheat to gain the advantage. Walcott was being dirty as well, it was one of Marciano's cleaner fights, I didn't count a single headbutt.

 

The clinches were much more competitive than this indicates, but Marciano was definitely stronger.

 

Walcott was fighting plenty dirty especially thag first round with all the holding and hitting.

 

Wasn't hurt my ass
"The standing-eight count had been waived for the bout, but in the excitement of Moore’s knockdown of Marciano, Kessler apparently forgot. As Marciano rose shakily to his feet, he grasped the top rope for support and gazed through foggy eyes at the Yankee Stadium crowd. At that point, Kessler first held Marciano’s gloves, then began a standing-eight count. At the three count, Kessler appeared to remember the eight-count waiver, and in a confused manner summoned the two to begin fighting.

Moore has maintained for 31 years that those half-dozen seconds were enough for Marciano’s head to clear"

Moore goes as far to say he thinks he would've Knocked Marciano Out had it not been for the referee's blunder.

As for Walcott; "He snapped home a vicious left hook and gave Marciano the first knockdown of his career. Rocky was up at the count of four but clearly hurt and took a beating for the rest of the stanza. Indeed, Walcott dominated the first three rounds of the match, testing Rocky’s chin repeatedly"
So no, it's not true that "he wasn't even hurt"

Both were 38 years old. It was Walcott's second last fight. They were not "at or near their prime". That's simply ludicrous (at best).

Frazier was just over a year into his pro career when he fought Bonavena. You're grasping at straws! Lol

Marciano wouldn't have seen the second round against Foreman and that's a fact.

This is not true. He frequently manhandled Norton in sparring and Chuvalo when they fought. Both men who'd out lift him comfortably.

 

Marciano said he blacked out for a few seconds after Moore dropped him.
He wasn't off balance in either knockdown,he was legitimately floored by 1,a left hook,2,a short right hand.
Moore wasnt a great puncher at heavyweight and neither imo was Walcott. I would imagine Bonavena hit as hard as Moore and possibly Walcott Charlie Godman was very high on his power. Its very possible Foreman could drop Marciano six times,imo. Inhuman strength?
You're getting a bit carried away aren't you? He was fighting old men in his major fights and they the were equivalent of modern cruisers.Moore was 38/40 depending on whether you believe him or his Mother ,Walcott was 38.I refused to believe any fighter is prime at those ages!

 

Congratulations you got the quote from Moore's bias perspective of Marciano rising of the canvas in 2 seconds. If you look at Moore's complaints then look at the footage you can notice that literally all of his complaints are false or exaggerated ones.

Two can play at this game!

"I wasn't hurt, not even phased. I was moreso mad at myself" -Marciano

There you go, from the horse's mouth! Not only that but Marciano actually quotes the hardest shot he took from Walcott was a body shot from the 12th round.

And Marciano has a much greater track record of not lying than Moore.

You were grasping at straws when you brought up a 2 second flash knockdown that was clearly from (past prime) Marciano being off balance. Or a knockdown Marciano himself quoted as not being hurt by.

Lol Marciano would've definitely seen the 2nd if Ken Norton could've, in fact I do believe he would've seen more rounds too

Norton was actually laughably weak for his build, I never understood that. Probably his chicken legs. Chuvalo always curled into a ball and panicked when getting beaten down.

You have a pitiful blindness to the prowess of what I believed were 2 undeniable factors of Marciano's ring success

 

For which fights did Moore train Frazier?

 

Marciano said it hurt but he wasn't going glassy eyed or out of it

He was absolutely off balance for both, especially the Moore knockdown, in which he was lunging forward so far and got so parallel with the ground that I'm surprised he didn't accidentally dodge the punch by falling himself.

Moore's right was a counterpunch btw

Not only is Moore the knockout king but Walcott was literally described by his contemporaries as a great two handed puncher. His feats of punch power are undeniable

Foreman has inhuman strength but there's no possible way he knocks Marciano down 6 times in the first 2 rounds. Imo he wouldn't have even done that to FOTC Frazier, much less Marciano whom has more raw physical traits than Frazier

Cruisers = heavies. They're the same thing. Diminishing returns are real and have been proven a billion times over. Moore was 38, the 1920 census proved this. Marciano only fought 3 old men.

If you don't think a fighter can be prime at 38 then take it up with men like Walcott, Fitzsimmons and Hopkins whom all were (and Wladimir Klitschko was very close to prime)

 

Who said anything about training? He said the quote right before Frazier's fight with Ellis if that's what you're wondering

 

Walcott was described as an old journeyman by almost every scribe who reported on him around the time of his first match with Marciano.

Where does this notion of him being a two-fisted powerpuncher come from?

 

He definitely wasn't. He was up in two seconds for both and wasn't dazed in the slightest.

Moore talks a lot of ****.

As further prove of the above.

"I wasn't hurt, not even phased. I was moreso mad at myself"
-Marciano

He was up quicker than you could say "he was down from an old man". Neither hurt him and it's clear. Tbh it's quite pathetic to base an assumption on his chin based off these KDs.

Can you name 3 performances from Walcott that were better? No. He was prime and a fighter that age well. Moore was as well, also, Moore went for like another 7 years as champion...

It's not. If we're being pedantic, it's a strong opinion, not a fact.

Chuvalo was a walking heavybag. Norton's weakness was his strength and chin lmao. Frazier should've manhandled him. You also bring these names up like Marciano wouldn't manhandle either.

Marciano was Frazier's equal (at least for chin and strength), and better for power and workrate.

 

By the people who also correctly called him champion when he was champion