Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes, with poll

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Nov 30, 2021.

Who wins?

  1. Holmes wins, and I've had at least one boxing match

    46.4%
  2. Holmes wins, and I've never had a boxing match

    42.0%
  3. Marciano wins, and I've had at least one boxing match

    7.2%
  4. Marciano wins, and I've never had a boxing match

    1.4%
  5. I voted by mistake, so I'm changing my answer to this option

    2.9%
  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,141
    5,890
    Aug 15, 2018
    Funny I can provide statistical
    Data and video…you can’t…and you say I hero worship? You have it backwards and are confused. No video of 6”3 but a few at 6”2 range. I’m sure the one inch would make or break Marciano against Holmes. Talk about hero worship
     
    choklab likes this.
  2. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,299
    4,054
    Mar 26, 2011
    I'm far from confused although I accidentally omitted to include the word CLASS in my question.Go Rocky Go ! Raah ! Raah ! Raah! Now I'd like to see that data and video as in? Name one class big man who was prime that Marciano ever beat. Marciano said himself he could not avoid 37 years old Louis' jabs and was pretty marked up from them. Anyone with a shred of objectivity would concede that Holmes' faster ,longer jab ,would bust his face up even more.
     
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,141
    5,890
    Aug 15, 2018
    Did I state Holmes wouldn’t land his jab occasionally? You enjoy putting words in people’s mouths. I’ve stated on this thread Holmes would be winning the fight till he got knocked out. Probably sometime around round ten to fifteen. ive also provided the compubox source which can be seen in Ali’s boxing by the numbers book. I already posted one defensive video there are others that break down more of his defensive skills. Now considering you’re still confused and repeatedly just utter ridiculous arguments like 6”3 and prime 6”3 (which aren’t arguments if you’ve ever put on a pair of gloves) and say false things like “hero worship”. Put up or shut up. Show me the evidence of Marciano being peppered with combos? All his opponents were bigger then him it shouldn’t be a problem for you.

    There are three fights on film of him facing 6”1-6”2 men once again being 6”3 isn’t a logical argument as to why someone wins a boxing fight. I have numerous film of Holmes getting tired late in fights. Film of him not having the best of chins. Film of him getting tagged with right hands. You have a picture of Marciano w a black eye after kicking the **** out of Louis and claim it as some kind of proof he would be beaten by others. You’re a very confused individual. Put up or shut up
     
    choklab likes this.
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

    11,374
    4,025
    Jun 30, 2005
    Minor mathematical point. Perhaps we shouldn't take @Glass City Cobra's "50%" quote literally, but if the fighters Marciano fought didn't even have half of the skill Holmes did, that would actually make Holmes at least twice as skilled as they were. Not merely 50% more skilled. So it would actually be a slightly more forceful claim than you are interpreting it as.

    Not a major issue, tho.
     
    choklab likes this.
  5. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,299
    4,054
    Mar 26, 2011
    "Holmes would land his jab occasionally," and you think that is a concession?
    Putting words in anothers mouth? Want to post where I said there is film of Marciano being peppered with combos?And you label me confused! lol

    Got any film of Holmes being dropped by a 41years old lhvy?
    How about a 38 years old man?
    Any film of Rocky beating a big ,class prime heavyweight?
    Do you seriously think for one moment you have any credibility on this subject?
    You are the chief Fan Boy for Rocky and that is why you get up so many noses with your unrealistic predictions.
    You do Marciano no favours I assure you!

    Have a day off lad!
     
  6. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,175
    6,827
    Aug 26, 2017
    This matchup has been done many times before ,, And I will regurgitate my same opinion , ,, If there is any truth to styles make fights then I cant think of a worse style match up for Marciano than Holmes
     
    Glass City Cobra and Tonto62 like this.
  7. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,299
    4,054
    Mar 26, 2011
    True ,though Foreman and Liston run it close.
     
    surfinghb likes this.
  8. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,175
    6,827
    Aug 26, 2017
    Since Marciano is so tough, heart, and stamina .. It's probably a fight stopped on cuts imo
     
    Tonto62 likes this.
  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,141
    5,890
    Aug 15, 2018
    Let the record show this lying confused man presented zero evidence for his argument. And Moore was 38. You’ve been proven a liar time and again and continue to be dishonest about it. At least Moore and Walcott were HOF fighters with plenty of quality knock outs to there name. Marciano was down for a total of 8 seconds without wobbly legs on both those whopping knockdowns.
    Your argument is Marciano would get destroyed by the jab. And others stated he had bad defense. I said put up or shut up. And you still can’t. Even though he faced great jabbers in his career. More then most yet no one can find a fight where Marciano got peppered w combos and was held at bay with the jab.
     
    choklab likes this.
  10. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,299
    4,054
    Mar 26, 2011
    Yes, I too see him being pulled out or rescued by the third man via tko.
     
  11. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,669
    8,736
    Jan 6, 2017
    Ali rarely got hit with a full flush combination even in the 70's he often rolled with shots and slipped at the last second.

    Holmes rarely got tagged with multiple shots in a row. I think Tyson was the only guy in more than 60 fights that managed to land multiple bombs in a row and that was an old inactive Holmes coming off a loss (which is right up Rocky's alley!).

    There is not a lot of footage of Frazier getting blasted multiple times in a row. His bob and weave was brilliant at his peak. The fights where he got knocked down were from single shots that he didn't see coming, the opponents were not just tagging him with a non stop barrage.

    Tyson in his prime had impregnable defense outside of the Douglas disaster. The clips speak for themselves.

    Believe it or not, even Foreman rarely got tagged with a barrage of shots with him just standing there and not blocking or firing back.

    Very few ATGs got nailed by multiple shots in a row or flush combos at their peak. This is not something unique to Rocky.

    Rocky conveniently disappeared after a very short career and had basically zero big prime heavies or tall athletic technicians. And even then, he ended many fights with bruises, black eyes, and welts despite facing many fairly average opponents or past their prime fighters.

    I did a through break down of Louis vs Rocky with time stamps that many people agreed with. You always either ignore it or shrug and say Rocky hadn't reached his peak yet which are the same tactics Tyson fans do narrowly limiting which fights count. Hence why I rarely respond to you when it comes to Rocky.

    The only one being emotional is you. Rocky's opponents, his trainer, his own brother, and dozens of people on this forum have all said the same thing that Rocky was crude, that his offense was his defense, etc. But you're sitting here with a rocky avatar and a user name based on one of his punches implying I'm being emotional and biased but we should trust that you're impartial with an objective set of eyes.

    Ok.

    Like I said, been real busy with school and work but when I get a chance I'm going to do a thorough break down of various ATGs and their punch stats and defensive ability.
     
    Tonto62 likes this.
  12. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,069
    1,278
    Mar 31, 2021
    Yes, but those men were smaller than Holmes, and had less of a reach. Plus, Holmes's jab was better than theirs.

    When Marciano gets closer, Holmes uses his right to keep him honest. And if that doesn't do the trick, he clinches and smothers him.

    True, but an old Holmes won't be fighting Marciano, a young one is. Plus, Tyson is a million times better than Marciano, so the comparison doesn't really makes sense.

    Marciano was indeed a brawler, but a small one, not very fast and with poor technique. Sometimes he even crossed his feet as he punched.
     
    Tonto62 likes this.
  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,141
    5,890
    Aug 15, 2018
    There’s no emotions in stats. They are what they are wether you agree with them or not doesn’t matter. Once again emotions. Plenty of fights of Ali and others getting tagged w combos especially Foreman who was defensively very crude despite a few nice tricks up his sleeve. I also never stated Marciano didn’t use offense as defense he did. And I also think you’re completely wrong if you think that was Marcianos style at its best. It’s not even in the commentary of the fight they state Marciano still hasn’t mastered that crouch and lean style he would become know. For.
     
  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,299
    4,054
    Mar 26, 2011
    Moore is listed as DOB1913 on Wikipeadia, the Encyclopeadia Brittanica,in Peter Heller's "In This Corner" which btw was a taped interview with Moore,and many others.
    CBZ deals with it like this.
    1913 or 1916.


    My argument is that Holmes boxes his ears off at range, landing his right hand after the measuring stick jab and, when Marciano gets inside, that he is caught with uppercuts and then tied up by the 30 lbs bigger man.
    My argument is if Holmes could survive that atomic right hand of Shavers,not only survive it, but get up to stop him, he could survive Marciano's right hands.
    My argument is that Marciano was given life and death by a past prime Charles and Walcott and cut in all his major fights,I therefore think a prime Holmes would ,not only do significantly better but overwhelmingly so.
    My argument is that,if an ancient Holmes could comfortably outpoint Mercer I think a prime Larry can beat Marciano.
    FYI Marciano hilself stated he blacked out for a few seconds after the Moore KD and that is why ,when he got up he started towards the ropes thinking he would get a mandatory standing count which was waived for title fights.
    In closing, I'm not going to call you a liar ,just a heavily biased fan boy who, I am sure believes implicitly everything he posts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,669
    8,736
    Jan 6, 2017
    This wasn't me claiming Holmes was literally twice as skilled as cherry picked skilled opponents on Rocky's resume such as Walcott or Charles.

    There are plenty of fights where Rocky has bruises, cuts, and black eyes against journeymen or c level opponents. Let me clarify before someone gets emotional: I'm not saying Rocky had the skill of a Journeyman or that he'd be C level in another era. I'm saying because of his crude, offense oriented style that incorporated wild baseball swings he often got nailed in the process of delivering his punches.

    Let me clarify once again for those that have comprehension skills: me saying Rocky "got hit often" is not me saying Rocky just stood there like Bert Cooper getting blasted in the head repeatedly by 3, 4, 5+ combos before gritting his teeth and landing one of his own for a Hollywood finish. I'm saying throughout the fight, he got nailed plenty. The post fight photos do not lie.

    The whole discussion was about how good Rocky's defense was. Swarmers in general are going to have some facial damage in a long drawn out fight that goes past the first few rounds simply due to the fact they're swarmers who are always attempting to press the issue and get close. They are often not the best jabbers and may have to eat one if they can't skip it, might take an uppercut if they do get close, often there's a clash of heads, elbows flying during clinches, etc. Look at Leo Santa Cruz, Shawn Porter, Henry Armstrong, Frazier, etc. They often have the same type of injuries in similar locations post fight.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.