Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes, with poll

I always end up picking Marciano in this particular fratch, but I have never seen it as being much adrift of being a 50/50 fight!

 

If Rocky decided to crouch and lean, holmes can frame him or stiff arm him to control his shoulders or head. I've mentioned this to you at least 3x now and you haven't addressed this. Or he could simply back up and get back to his preferred range. Why would Holmes just stand there flailing away at a crouching Rocky?

No one is saying Holmes simply pops his jab out all night and rocky is unable to ever get close even once the entire fight. What I am saying is that due to Holmes ability to vary the speed, timing, and angle of his jab, combined with his insane reach and footwork, means Rocky would need to reset anytime he does manage to get close. Because holmes would be ready to throw an uppercut which even choklab admits could be a problem. Or change angles and throw a right hand from several feet away with his long arms.

Holmes could also stand his ground at ring center and dictate the pace. He has more options than just sticking and moving, that was only one of his game plans.

My point in bringing up Smith, Weaver, Mercer, etc was that they were all very strong durable hard punching guys over 6 feet and over 200 lbs. And yet they couldn't just walk through Holmes jab and got their heads snapped back. I'm aware Rocky doesn't fight exactly like them, but I'm not sure why you're dismissing the fact Rocky was significantly smaller and lighter than all of them and thinking he'd have a far easier time getting close somehow. Rocky wasn't particularly fast even for a guy his size, he was a slugger and was used to dealing with mostly light heavy and borderline cruiser sized opponents. There were no tall athletic technicians on his record and the best you could say in response was Lastarza who wasn't half the fighter holmes was. Some people even thought Rocky lost the 1st fight and he had to resort to fouls and rough house tactics in the 2nd fight.

 

I don’t know why you assume I didn’t answer you when I did lol. Marciano does not fight like Frazier. First off Larry wasn’t Foreman. Larry wouldn’t be able to hold Frazier back and throw him off balance. That’s not his style. Maybe you can give an example of him doing this consistently throughout a fight because off hand I can’t think of one. He certainly didn’t try to fight Tyson like that. Not saying your le wrong on that just need examples.
If larry tried to stiff arm Marciano he would have to over commit and get into Marcianos range (because of the crouch and lean). He’d probably get his body abused if left it stiff open as well. Marciano moves constantly And way better then the fighters you named. There’s a reason why people couldn’t pull that off against him. He was to strong to much punch output.
I addressed the uppercut issue with you. Not sure if you read it. Marciano was not susceptible to the uppercut. I assure you go through his fights he almost never gets hit with one. Because of his crouch and lean style. He’s not a head first fighter like Frazier or Tyson. Different styles. The uppercut is not a problem.
I never said Holmes would be stationary. I stated multiple times he would running all night (the mirage) and he would get exhausted trying to keep up that pace with Marciano. Marciano spent his career chasing down faster lighter fighters then Holmes. They may not have been as good but speed wise of foot were just as fast or faster. I explained how he would close the gap in numerous ways. Good countering, his style, walking down, closing off the ring, crowding. Marciano also wouldn’t just be standing there he constantly movement.
I watched the second Lastarza bout numerous times he didn’t win because of rough house tactics but Marciano was a dirty fighter. But so we’re most of the good champs.

 

Larry did plenty of stiff arming and framing what are you talking about?

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If Rocky crouches and leans holmes could easily halt his movements and control him. He would not need to leave himself wide open he did this effortlessly in many fights.

 

You can add muscle to a 6 feet 2 inch guy like Spinks or Holyfield because they have the frame to carry it,adding it to a 5 feet 10 inch man who was no speedster with either his hands or feet would just make him slower.
Marciano was one of the best conditioned boxers that ever entered a ring,he had to be to win with his style and size.Pumping him up would imo, adversely affect both his stamina and his speed,last time I looked no training or "supplements" can make you taller ,or increase your reach.

 

It would be interesting how he carried extra weight put on perfectly wouldn't it. He actually a little taller than Tyson with 3" less reach. I can't see him putting on loads of weight but with modern science he most certainly could put on "some" without losing anything.

 

Larry beats Rocky.

 

EVER SEEN A BETTER CONDITIONED BOXER THAN MARCIANO?

 

Larry Holmes is way ahead on points going into the 13th Round. Then Marciano follows Holmes to the ropes and beats him to the punch with a short compact right. Holmes collapses in a heap. Oh sorry that was Walcott. But Marciano beats all bigger faster stronger better more skilled and powerful heavyweights the same way in a mythical fight. So there you go. Marciano 13th round ko.

 

So there’s never been a boxer in history who’s not gone into the ring in absolutely tip top physical and mental condition other than Marciano.

 

IMHO:

Holmes win= I see two possible ways for Holmes to win. 1. TKO due to cuts, and 2. a Decision (due to masterful jabbing with occasional flurries). I don't see Holmes knocking Marciano out for a 10 count, and I don't see him damaging Marciano with punches or knockdowns to get a referee stoppage that way.

Marciano win= I see three possible ways for Marciano to win. 1. KO for a 10 count, 2. TKO due to knockdowns and/or damage, and 3. a Decision (due to a high work rate, aggression, and some knockdowns along the way). I don't see Marciano winning the TKO on cuts.

I'm going with Marciano in this head to head match up, but I'm not betting on it.

 

Not saying that there hasn't been, but he did pretty darn well.

Any swarmer who is consistent, has to be exceptional in this regard.