rocky marciano vs larry holmes

Is there some sort of random Marciano nonsense generator creating this stuff?

Nice touch pulling in an amateur loss for Holmes. Should we discuss the Ted Lowry fights? Lastarza?

And here... Shavers hit harder than Marciano. Shavers had better balance than Marciano. Shavers had better footwork than Marcino. Enjoy the comparisons.

 

Different kind of pressure entirely.

This is not subtle pressure behind the jab, it is in close smothering pressure, that doesn't give you room to breathe!

 

Foreman and Shavers hit harder than Frazier, so presumably they did much better against Ali right?

You are completely ignoring the stylistic component of the fight here!

 

I know this, but you keep coming back to this idea that he can win with just a jab!

Old Joe Louis was not able to keep him at bay with just a jab.

Old Joe Louis got brutalized, and knocked sprawling through the ropes, never to fight again!

I would add that even at the age of 37, Joe Louis might have had more power in his punches, than Holmes had in his prime!

 

I was protesting the directive not to compare Marciano to Shavers.

All the stylistic components I see go against Marciano.

 

Then you don't understand the basics of styles.

 

No it wasn't. You haven't:

-explained how rocky is going to overcome Holmes jab when an old louis' was much battering him and shut his eye for 8 rounds. Your response was "it doesnt matter he won and he always swells up" which is about the dumbest rebuttal ive ever heard when asked how a fighter will deal with a devastating jab. Claiming rocky wasnt prime when he was 28 and won the title a ****ing year after the louis fight is a sad counter argument.

-you havent explained how rocky is going to apply non stop pressure and track down holmes who had superior stamina and footwork than a 38 year old shopworn walcott, who rocky took 13 ****ing rounds to break down. If you are going to respond that you think that version of walcott had better footwork and stamina than a prime Holmes dont respond because no one will take you seriously.

-you havent shown me evidence of rocky outboxing someone on the outside, dont think i forgot.

-you haven't explained how rocky is going to beat up holmes on the inside as if Holmes didnt already deal with 2 serious oressure fighters in mercer and Norton who were bigger, stronger, and more athletic than rocky. Janitor seems to think holmes was a simple jab and move boxer who couldn't adapt if someone got past his jab. Your responses are letting me know you either havent seen Holmes fight or you're horrible at assessing fights. Holmes was not too shy to mix it up on the inside and had underrated strength.

You havent addressed anything I asked.

 

Bump.

 

If rocky cant get past holmes Jab, then yeah, obviously he could potentially win with just that! Explain how he does this?! You either think a 37 year old was better than Holmes or that holmes jab wasnt much better than Louis jab!

So we have a direct quote from rocky admitting he had to take an old Louis jab, visual evidence of his face swelling up, but you are saying he wasnt keeping rocky at bay? The fight lasted 8 rounds, can you think of a lot of 37 year gunshy fighters who could last 8 rounds with marciano? If he wasnt keeping rocky at bay why did it take so long? Your reply contradicts what happened in reality

 

I don’t see how styles hurt Marciano here. On the contrary. Holmes is gonna have to punch down to hit Rocky which means he WILL have to drop his guard. Something Marciano, Tyson, and Frazier knew well as short power punchers. If Marciano couldn’t slip jabs or counter then he wouldn’t have sniffed a title shot. He will crowd the hell out of Holmes and relentlessly make him work. He’s gonna throw a lot more punches then Shavers or Norton. He’s gonna wrestle with him on the inside tire him out. This is not a knock on Holmes who is an ATG top ten HW. It’s a bad match up for him. Holmes would prob edge out Foreman imo and Foreman would prob beat Marciano and it’s because of styles. If Holmes had better stamina I may take him for the win. But I don’t think he could keep up with him for 15. I’d also take Frazier and Tyson over Holmes in a h2h.

 

I should think the pressure a 220 lbs 6.3" man brings might be at least as effective as that of a 5'10"185lbs little fella could bring!

Holmes handled the former with a torn left biceps.

 

You keep taking Rocky as not at his best. Should the same be done with holmes? He was not a complete fighter by then. He had only been boxing a short while. There is a considerable style difference from Louis to say Matthews. It’s obvious when you watch the film. He leans a lot less against Louis and walks forward a lot more and basically eats jabs to get in. Relying more on his power and stamina to get him through. Later on he gets more creative using feints, crouch and lean are more pronounced, uses both hands, uses better angles, combos exc. you want prime Marciano look at Matthews to Lastarza/EC. Skill wise he looked great against Moore but he def lost a little pop from his legs.

 

Holmes will be punching down and Marciano will have to come out of his crouch and punch up to land.
Whats the matter with Holmes stamina? He went 12 rds with world champion Holyfield at the age of 42?
He beat the 230lbs number5 contender over 12 rds at the age of 41?
Where is the evidence he ever lacked stamina?
He wasnt a younger man beating 37, 38, and 40 year olds!

 

Been a long time since I watched the Norton and Shavers fights but I recall him being winded in those and taking rounds off. He would find he can’t rest like he could against the others with Marciano or Frazier for that matter. Marciano had to come out of his crouch and punch up on everyone.

 

Mathews was nothing, a hype job. Marciano looked like **** against Lastarza for the first 6 rds.