rocky marciano vs larry holmes

I remember at one point there was about 10 threads on the first page alone all devoted to the Rock, and the same posters were posting the same back and forth argy bargy in each one. I think the Rock's drawing power has increased over the years and much like with Elvis his death seems to have been a great career move.

Anyway I hardly read them anymore because it's pointless but I looked at this because I saw that you had posted last and it didn't disappoint because it was unbiased, factual and balanced and in my opinion accurate. Provides some clear air from the usual standard bantering re Marciano. Good stuff mate.

 

I agree that people have been overstating the effectiveness of Louis' jab in that fight but I don't see how that fight gives us any meaningful insight into how Marciano would fare against a prime Holmes. Holmes had much faster hands than old Louis, was MUCH better at putting his jabs and combinations together, and most importantly, was a far more mobile fighter with MUCH quicker and more active feet. Was better at keeping range too, as the Louis who fought Marciano constantly leaned in with his jabs, giving up the distance, and literally putting himself head to head with Marciano. And then he would stand around and exchange inside punches with Marciano in the clinch because he didn't have the legs or footwork to escape.

Holmes wouldn't fight anything like that. I see Marciano following Holmes around the ring all night while getting strafed with jabs and pot shots. Gets inside at times and does some mostly unimpactful mauling. Always a chance he catches Holmes with a big, wild right, but I doubt it would be anything Holmes couldn't handle. I see Holmes winning big.

 

Cheers mate. I usually stay clear and only post now and then if something catches my eye in particular.

 

I addressed the Louis fight at length because such great importance has been placed on it in here.

I don't think Marciano would follow Holmes around all night based on what I've seen at length from both of them. Leon Spinks got inside a bit against a peak jabbing, moving Holmes and Leon is somewhat limited and way straighter. Marciano would be much lower and more canny in his efforts. As i said earlier Holmes isn't afraid to let his hands go when pressured and he'd be down off his toes reasonably early in the fight. Marciano would be relentless in his efforts to shorten the distance. The later rounds is where he might come on somewhat too. That's my opinion anyway.

 

I'm actually not convinced that Marciano would have even done as well as Leon Spinks at closing distance against Holmes. Marciano lacked the foot speed, balance, reach, reflexes, head movement, hand speed, and size that enabled Spinks to keep a retreating Holmes under constant direct pressure. Spinks showed impressive skills and agility, using head movement and deceptively good footwork to close distance (his punches were often wild but they were long enough to help prevent Holmes from establishing a comfortable fighting range).

https://streamable.com/poofe

No shame in us agreeing to disagree on this one, of course.

 

This was a big problem for Rocky.

That said, for all that's written here, we are talking about a retired-undefeated heavyweight champion. Never happened before or since...and doesn't look likely anytime soon. Rocky was a smart, smart man imo.

 

In over words Holmes never defended his title against the #1 contender, and only once defended it against the #2 contender.

Marciano defended against his #1 contender five times, and his #2 contender once.

That arguably makes Holmes significantly more vulnerable to criticism of his opposition!

This statistic should also be considered when comparing him to other long reigning champions like Lewis and Wlad!

 

I have, but you can't see the elephant in the room.

Styles!

 

There's plenty of validity to what you're saying.

However, look at how many of Holmes' titular defenses were against future title holders. Rocky didn't beat anyone like that. Witherspoon (2x champ), Weaver (knocked him silly twice), Smith. All were in their primes except for the second time Weaver (and Holmes one-punch kayo'd him when he himself was waaaay past prime).

 

I agree.

 

The title was split if you recall.

 

I can see well enough to see through you! And I can see "the midget in the room/ring"!

 

Forget about the jab for a moment Louis had no right hand in that fight,He was a one armed fighter whose legs went after 6rds.That would not be a prime Holmes!

 

Joe was waaay past it. I'd be shocked if anyone thought that was even kissing cousin to prime Joe Louis.

I was much more impressed by the Charles fight (re: Rocky).

 

He d

he toyed with Lastarza for the majority of the fight. Must have watched something different. Matthews wasn’t the best for sure but many guys are hype jobs...not many of them had like 90 wins but whatever. To each their own. I don’t think we are gonna change each other’s opinions on this one.