rocky marciano vs larry holmes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by bbox71, Aug 31, 2019.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    LaStarza and Layne were NEVER stopped until they met Marciano. They were stopped after they were ruined already. Briggs and wilders wins can’t even compare to Marciano’s stop the insanity. Also Frazier had one of the best weapons in boxing history and NO ONE would question his one punch power. According to your standards no one had one punch KO power.
    and
     
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ruined? Nonsense.

    Layne fought rocky in 51. He continued to fight until 56. He actually beat ezzard Charles in that time frame, shot ruined fighters cant continue fighting another 5 years or beat ezzard Charles.

    Rocky used head butts, hit on the break, hitting after the bell, and all kinds of dirty tactics to stop lastarza. Rocky was actually behind on points and had a point deducted for a low blow!
     
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Charles was looooong gone by then and so was Layne. They weren’t close to the fighters they were and their records prove it. Especially Layne who basically never trained seriously which can be observed in his weight for some of these bouts.
     
  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Damn right Marciano could get dirty when frustrated. So did many other fighters.
     
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I don't need to. Its already been done. I know it's fairly even split of opinion. Boxer vs Slugger or Swarmer vs Boxer can go either way.
    Your also comparing Frazier and Marciano so it's not totally off topic. Odd you would throw that in there.
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lol! So now marciano fouling is ok! Ive seen it all! This is what we call cognitive dissonance, unable to criticize a fighter for any reason.
     
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Reading comprehension is important. I was agreeing with you that he could get dirty. Lol I in no way condoned it. I am starting to believe you just like to argue. And a lot of fighters could get dirty. That is nothing new in boxing.
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Seems uncharacteristic but I'm starting to think this might be part of his debate toolkit...
     
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  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But you refused to condemn him for it! You had to bring up other fighters instead of conceding the point.
     
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    From what I can tell, most of his biggest online boosters start off well under 40--guys who became fascinated by the legend of Marciano before they ever even watched or knew much about boxing.
     
  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Nothing about my counter point has to do with his style.

    What is the point of comparing Marciano to Tyson?
    Are you saying that Marciano is overrated because he doesn't match Tysons KO record?
    Tyson is one of the greatest HW boxers ever. And the greatest early fight finisher ever.
    Saying Marciano doesn't have the early fight KO track record that Tyson possesses doesn't seem to say much.
    Detractors insinuate that Marciano was Dokes level, and then they compare him against fighters like Tyson, Louis, etc. That doesn't make sense.

    Again you bring out the argument that because Marciano stopped certain fighters later in fights than other opponents did, he doesn't have great power. But again, you haven't presented complete comparisons to see how much water the metric holds. Once again, Liston went the distance with Whitehurt twice, while someone else knocked him out in 1 round. And that was an example I found in 1 minute. Marciano has almost double the amount of "fastest KO of any opponents" than Lewis, at 11 to 6. Does that mean Lewis is overrrated in power too? Or does your metric have some flaws?

    His reputation as a guy who can end fights with 1 punch isn't some revisionist theory backed by no evidence. He scored one of the most prominent 1 punch KOs in history against Walcott. You can see him score a brutal 1 punch KO against Layne. It's there in the film.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Not sure what the point is of attacking the character of non detractors.

    The guy was a multiple time defending HW champion of the world with a perfect record.
    We're not exactly hoisting a journeyman on our shoulders.

    Of course there will be people who think he is a legit all time talent.
    Muhammad Ali had great things to say about Rockys fighting abilities after being in a ring with him.
    Surely he knows nothing about boxing though, right?
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    I don’t see how that was an attack on anyone’s character.

    And to be clear, I wasn’t describing his “non-detractors”—I was describing a smaller, more extreme group.
     
  14. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    You're pretty much calling his supporters, or rather his "extreme group" (whoever they may be) naïve in boxing knowledge and blinded by infatuation. If that doesn't fit the category of attacking ones character, thats fair, and perhaps better wording could've been used.
     
  15. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Both were ruined by Marciano as their subsequent form and level of opposition shows.
    Now please ask yourself this question.
    Q Why were they ruined?

    A. Because they absorbed a prolonged beating.
    Marciano targeted Layne's weak mid section and gradually broke him down before applying the coup de grace.
    After the 6th round Marciano sustained a continuous bombardment on Lastarza , rendering him defenceless and stationary, trapped on the ropes until the referee rescued him whilst still on his feet.
    Frazier ? I question his one punch power. Who did he actually knock out?
    Frazier ,like Marciano was an attrition puncher, he wore you down with an unforgiving succession of hard punches volume, volume ,volume.
     
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