rocky marciano vs larry holmes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by bbox71, Aug 31, 2019.


  1. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Admirable restraint exhibited by you here.
     
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  2. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This can be countered by Joe Louis who called him a crude street brawler in his autobiography.The difference being Louis actually fought Marciano, and Ali was acting out a preordained script in which both men pulled their punches.
     
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  3. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nobody thought Layne beat Charles.

    "In a blatantly obvious hometown decision, Referee Jack Dempsey scored 2 rounds for Layne, 1 round for Charles with 7 rounds even. Most objective observers felt Charles had won. During the fight Layne butted Charles repeatedly without caution from the referee.

    Legendary cornerman and trainer Ray Arcel said,"Instead of adding dignity to the fight game, Dempsey has added disgrace."
     
  4. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Marciano had deposited dollars in the bank in the preceding rounds gradually beating these men down as he did Moore..

    " I've been hit harder,.but never more often.He had tremendous stamina,that man could keep going all night"
    Roland Lastarza Ring interview with James Dusgate Nov 1990.
    " I've been hit by harder punchers but never so often."Don Cokkell 1956.
    "Rocky got to me by sheer bulldogging,ruggedness,and continuous grinding"
    Archie Moore Oct 1970.

    "But Moore's bloodiest fight was not his loss to Marciano, or his wars with Johnson and Maxim. It came in 1958, in the first of his title defenses against the Canadian Durelle.

    Moore, who was to win on an 11th-round knockout, was floored four times.

    "The first time he put me down ... I thought 'Wow, this guy can hit,' " Moore recalled. "They said Marciano was a house wrecker, and he was, but it took him a volley to get the job done. This guy ... one punch." CBZ

    “I had a tougher fight against Jersey Joe Walcott when he knocked me out to win the title,” Ezzard added painfully. “Marciano doesn’t punch as hard as Walcott. He doesn’t really hit hard—but he’s a strong guy, all right.”
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Walcott in both there fights was knocked out really with one solid punch. Maybe in the first fight it was set up with volume but one punch rendered him unconscious for some time. And can’t really argue your points they are sound on this one. He absolutely used volume it was an asset but both he and Frazier possessed the ability to render anyone unconscious with a single punch. Doesn’t mean they possessed Foreman power or shavers. But if those guys don’t have onenpunch power can you name me 15 guys that do in the HW division? Just think the bar is being set way to high here.
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Didn’t Walcott say Marciano hit harder then Louis? And sparring partners?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  7. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Marcinao wasnt accurate enough to accomplish this with any regularity.His fights with
    If we could see Rocky's kos of Reynolds and Donato it might enhance his standing as a one punch ko artist.
     
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He said Rocky hit harder with one punch but Louis was the better puncher I believe, its a while since I watched that program.Perhaps Walcott's age in those respective fights ought to be factored in? I only included the quotes I did for Rez.
     
  9. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah sure.
    The LHW-CW, who went an avarage 9 rounds against his challanging seniors (behind on points until 40s fellows gassed), would beat the best next to Muhammad Ali jabbing mover at modern heavyweight...

    The guy who got up from a nuclear bomb and TKO his power punching opponent. Who beat another 20 modern HW that title-run until age cought up with him.

    What an horse****.

    "This is professional boxing: Stop repeating and spreading viral heroic comic fairytales.

    Give Rockista Brain Virus (RBV) no chance.
    Thanks."
     
  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What was the point of comparing him to tyson and Louis? Because you asked me to genius! You even brought up the liston example again, so what exactly are you asking me to do here?

    If we both agree rocky was clumsy and a volume puncher then what exactly are we debating? Even janitor and gazelle punch agree on this but you are still insisting he was a 1 punch ko artist at the same time. It doesnt make any sense.

    Moore flat out said he was kod due to the sheer number of punches, not that his 1 shot power was higher than other opponents.

    Lastarza and cokkel, marciano pelted them all night with barrages of punches (and fouls) to get the stoppages.

    Charles went the distance with him the first time. Marciano had to drop charles several times and fouled him to get the ko:

    "Twice he was guilty of hitting after the bell, and once he was warned for heeling Ezzard in a close-quarters exchange"

    What makes it worse that this was an older, shopworn Charles and once again, other fighters of rocky's own era knocked charles out quicker. Same thing with Savold, whom rocky couldn't floor at all.

    Taking 13 rounds to knockout walcott is the exact opposite of a 1 punch ko. You think rocky just swung at air for 12 rounds and all he landed were glancing blows until the 13th? I cant help but point out he also landed a left hook on Walcott while he was down! And for the 3rd time now, other fighters kod a younger less worn out Walcott faster than rocky.

    Im not saying rocky's power is overrated because he doesnt have as many efficient knockouts as louis or tyson (who were 2 of the best combination punchers) Im saying that a true sign of devastating punching power is that they ko opponents faster than common opponents and/or they manage to ko durable opponents whom other guys weren't able to. Rocky is sorely lacking in either category.

    I already covered tyson and Louis. Foreman has Frazier, Cooney, rodrigues, Chuvalo, kirkman, Roman, and wepner. I could go on. It seems the point is going over your head or you're putting fingers in your ears.

    You are trying to have it both ways and say he is a devastating 1 punch ko artist but he frequently takes longer to ko opponents whom other fighters finished off sooner. Its pretty straightforward. Either he had horrendous technique and finishing ability or his power was overrated, or both. Its made worse by the fact many of his opponents were shopworn and older when he got to them. His ko% isn't that impressive because knocking out X opponent had already been done multiple times before and in quicker fashion, which shows X opponent wasn't very durable. And the majority of his opponents were under 6'1 and under 200 lbs.
     
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holmes was the champion almost 40 years ago, that's not modern. Marciano is closer to Holmes in timeline than Holmes to Ruiz.
     
  12. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    How did we get another thread like this?

    100 pages imminent?
     
  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Don't really have an opinion on the match-up. But there's a difference between aesthetic footwork and 'good' footwork fundamentally. Homes was better (not that Walcott was a slouch). It's the difference between a Roman Gonzalez and a Naseem Hamed.
     
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  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    lol
     
  15. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Mondern in BF24-context, most say since Liston/Ali with emergence of the 6'3" 212 HWs.

    Of course you might add more optional demarcations.
     


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