rocky marciano vs larry holmes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by bbox71, Aug 31, 2019.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Of course not. He wins it through the combination of his size, mobility, handspeed, back-foot fighting style, chin, and all-around boxing skills.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    That version of Louis looked like a one-armed mummy compared to prime Larry Holmes.

    Any power difference between them was more than outweighed by the fact that Louis had deteriorated so badly that he was unable to get off many good rights or combinations that stage in his career.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are we now arguing that Louis' greatest, most effective weight was 213?

    Cool story, brah-dude.
     
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    1-we have to first agree on what a 1 punch ko is, i think thats part of the problem.

    2-no im not cherry picking stop using terms you dont know the meaning of. When i compared rocky's stoppage times to other boxets who fought the same common opponent that was completely fair, because i did the same exact thing for Louis, tyson, etc.

    When i compared how long it took rocky to score his 8 best KO's i picked 8 of his best opponents and found an average of 8.7. None of that was cherry picking because again, i did the SAME THING for other heavyweight champions like Tyson, louis and foreman and their numbers came out better. What am I doing that's unfair to rocky? Im using the exact same criteria.

    3-the only problem with lastarza is rocky intentionally fouled multiple times and it still ended up being a late round stoppage (round 11). He only gets so much credit. And he was later stopped by Mederos in only 5. You overlook the glaring fact that rocky not only fouled but was clearly not as efficient as Mederos in stopping the exact same guy.

    Layne was kod 6x total which means his chin was mediocre at best. The reason a guy like tyson is given so much credit for stopping Holmes is because he was the ONLY guy to do it. Holmes had a granite chin and wasnt easy to out down, let aline stop. Plenty of people knocked out several of rocky's ko victims, that's the part you're not getting!

    4-yes marciano was carefully managed. His career was similar to a lot of mexican fighters due to his lacking of an amateur background. Look at some of the "killers" he faced:

    When rocky was 34-0, he faced Applegate who was 11-14 and lost 5 of his last 6.

    When he was 33-0 he faced Art Henri who was 13-15 and lost 5/6,

    31-0 he faced Simmons who was 8-8-1 and lost 4/6

    32-0 he faced harold Mitchell who was 4-14-3 and lost 6/last 6 fights.

    29-0 he faced lowry who was 66-57 and lost 4/6

    I'm making stuff up?

    5-the 2nd shot rocky landed on Walcott while he wad down did nothin? First of all how the hell would you know? 2nd, please log off and never reply again if you're serious becaudr if you're trolling its not funny. Ive seen someone in a similar situation getting hit while unconscious and they DIED. its extremely dangerous. You sound ignorant af right now.

    6-trust me you dont want me to break down the stoppage rates of other champions because if you're crying this much like a teenage girl over poor little rocky and cant admit he was a volume puncher then you'd probably be on suicide watch if i went further. Clearly we're wasting each others time as you are too emotionally invested to have an honest objective conversation.
     
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  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Active Member Full Member

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    Idk if it’s even worth arguing with you if you think that was a dirty shot on Walcott. You’ve either never seen the fight or you know Jack **** about boxing. Possibly the first person ever to think that was a dirty shot. Go ahead take Tyson’s 8 toughest opponents he lost to half of them. Take Tuas he lost to half of them. Etc. and you were obviously cherry picking leaving out walcott 2 and Matthews. Of vhs 15 best opponents it’s about 6 rounds and I challenge you to find many people better. Obviously he threw in volume but he also theee with power.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No but his 213lbs, was as heavy as anybody else's 213lbs.

    Marciano is obviously going to cope with a fighter that size leaning on him and shoving him around.
     
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Seems you dont understand what functional weight is.

    Louis spent 99% of his career weighing far less than 213. Most that additional weight was him simply getting older/layoffs from the war/lounging around playing golf/eating Thanksgiving turkey, etc. Its not like he was bulking up with creatine shakes and pumping iron to get that heavy.
     
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Louis was one armed by the time he fought Marciano he had a jab and an occasional left hook,and his best fighting weight was a good 10pounds below 217
     
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta New Member Full Member

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    It would be an interesting fight, it would resemble the computer fight with Ali. Larry would come out, sticking and moving,establishing the jab early, as he did against Ken Norton. Rocky would come out bobbing and weaving, landing punches on the arms and shoulders. Holmes would also be banged alot to the ribs. Both would be down at least once, Marciano bleeding profusely, would force the referee to stop it in round 14.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I know all that, but the general point still stands.

    Holmes was not some superheavyweight monster, like you are making him out to be.

    He was marginally bigger that the kind of opponents that Marciano was accustomed to.

    He was probably within what Marciano was accustomed to, in terms of power, physical strength, and body weight.

    His size is a non factor in this.
     
  11. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He wasn't" marginally bigger," he was significantly bigger than any challenger Marciano faced as a champion.
    Charles turned pro fighting under 160lbs 6ft
    Walcott at165lbs 6ft
    Moore at148lbs 5'11"
    Cokkell around 160lbs 5' 10"

    Holmes weighed 202lbs 6'3" for his debut pro fight!
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  12. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why would anybody care what they weighed at the time of their debuts?

    The bottom line is that Holmes weighed about 210lbs at his best.

    That is about 10 lbs on Walcott or Layne, and less than Louis or Shkor.

    I don't see any sort of game changer here.
     
  13. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Im saying Holmers was always a natural heavyweight and those 4 challengers of Marciano were not.Furthermore the difference in size,height weight ,reach is significant not as you tried to imply marginal.You are resembling Choklab with this line of spin!
     
  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think if one takes a look at Larry's physique around 1980 one can't help but think he would have been bigger (including more muscular, look at those ARMS!) than Rocky...significantly so. Larry had the bulkier upper body.

    Not exactly sure size would be a factor in this fight...but I'd bet it wouldn't be anywhere near the factor Bowe made it during his career. Larry was never big on throwing his weight around (the Spinks fight was an anomaly in that regard), certainly not as much as some of the superheavyweights since.

    Larry would, however, have the superior upper body strength to both push Rocky away and from time to time turn him around (spin his body off-balance, which was a cool and effective thing Larry might have gotten from Ali).
     
  15. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Walcott turned professional at 16

    Charles turned professional at 19

    Moore turned professional at 19

    ****ell turned professional at 18

    Holmes turned professional at 24

    Who is really spinning things here?
     


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