Rocky Marciano vs Lennox Lewis

He was able to do everything.

He boxed Tua from range. He went seek and destroy against Ruddock and Golota. He counter punched from mid range against Morrison and Briggs. He walked down Vitali and Bruno. He toughed it out at close range against Mercer. He even jabbed and grabbed against Holyfield. He fought so many different fights in his career, hardly any boxers showed as many dimensions as he did.

 

Lewis would be a 6 foot 5 beanpole who could weigh in below 200 if he trained for 25 rounds.

Why can't you see this?

4 words for you

Ernie Terrell, Carmine Vingo.

Duh.

 

I don't need to work hard. This is very simple.

Where are the explosive giants before 1985?

Don't tell me it's just down to sheer numbers producing them. Ok let's say it was just down to sheer numbers. and that we had a stack of them all turn up in the late 1980s (out if sheer coincidence) that could all fight as well as any heavyweight. Tucker, Biggs, truth Williams, Jose Ribalta, Reggie Gross, Mitch Green. There was a ton of them back then. All under 230. And they could all box.

It Never happened again did it?

250-260. I'm not seeing that same flair. Why is this? Is it because these athletic 6'5" guys all thought more of their teeth and noses and all jacked in boxing and went into basketball all at the same time?

Or did something else happen to make them even bigger? Where did these Mitch greens all go? Were they phase one of a new experiment in training?

Had the advances in training taken this 1980s stack of taller 220lb stylish heavyweights only that far..And then something else happened? Another advance to create another species of explosive Superheavyweight?

Why is it that Lewis can only appear in a fantasy fight from an earlier time with all the benefits of the modern age... if there are no benefits from the modern age?

I don't claim to have the answers. I just think things changed too much.

 

Lewis is not Terrell of Vingo. Why compare him to a hack like Vingo?

Would Carnera and Buddy Baer and Abe Simon be 400 pounds today?

You are imagining things in order to fit your narrative. Lewis was a giant f*cker who had skills and possessed an athleticism few of his big man predecessors had. Get over it.

 

And what narrative would that be?

 

maybe that is because everything is in place now for it to continue. All the obstacles that prevented giants in boxing to be as athletic as everyone else have been removed forever?

Don't you think some advance somewhere took place to allow so many 6'5" guys to turn up all in one go like that? Green, Williams, Ribalta, Gross, Biggs, Tucker, Damiani. Specifically 6'5". A functional boxing 6'5"?

240, 250, 269lb don't split hairs. When was a 6'"5 fighter that heavy of any real value to the extent it has been over the look past 20 years than it was the 100 years before? Don't you think the change in t hth e overall pace and skill something to do with their flair and what it allowed them to do? George Foreman was on to something when he wanted to come back.

I think both Lewis and the klits were very mature by then and it was their experience as much as their size that allowed them to function like that whilst slowing the pace to that walk that they needed. Do you think 18 or 21 year old versions of themselves could do that?

yes I read it.

I was talking specifically about long giants of 6'5" or so. Povetkin is nit 6'5".

My observation of 6'5" Carl Williams outboxing Larry Holmes was a lot easier on the eye than say Tyson Fury finding away to man handle himself a win against Cunningham.

I was talking about that sized frame, what they weighed then, how they boxed and contrasting that with recent fighters as tall or taller and how much heavier they weigh with the same frame and how well that allows them to box.

Both types are no doubt as effective, I'm just asking if you can recognise something has been lost when they are heavier.

I was replying to the part where you said you did not want Lewis in a fantasy fight unless he is allowed to grow up in an era where he can be as big and athletic as he was against a fighter who has not benefited from all of that. So on one hand your saying he's one if the natural athletes that a growing society produced and on the other hand you say he must arrive by time machine because he needs all if those modern advances in nutrition and training.

 

People are forgetting that in the late 80's and 90's Lewis was in the 220lbs, hardly a massive man at that point. He was just as devastating at the lighter weights was he not? He was exposed due to technical flaws not a lack of size.

 

One of the reasons Lewis was able to beat Holyfield was by crushing him in the clinch rather than exchange up close.

Lewis at 220 does no have the strength required to do that.

The bigger weight is more effective for the mauling tactics and it makes the jab a lot heavier. The combined package is you have a brute force jab your way all night and then a clinch if you get in close. I think the extra size does help there.

It also helps when Lewis is in top shape but 20 pounds of muscle heavier because that 1-2 he landed on Rahman would have knocked any man clean out.

 

Show me a fight where Lewis was lacking physically in the 220lbs. One thing that does puzzle me is how the hell did Lewis pack on all that weight, its not as though he was shredded whilst weighing in at 220lbs.

 

Pure nonsense, lewis at 227 was even better, explosive,fast, strong,aggressive and not, the 1-2 that he landed over rahman would not have knocked out ANY man clean out

 

Lewis at 227 has his best victories over who?

And Lewis at 227 struggles against Holyfield without the weight advantage.

And yes any man alive shipping that 1-2 gets dropped like a sack of ****.

 

So based on your Reasoning ali was better in the 70s than he was in 64-67 because he fought his better rivals in the 70s.
Your comment about holyfield is pure speculation,it never happened.

No. Tons of guys had better chin than rahman so it would not have the same effect

 

not even responding to the first comment. I say enough stupid **** myself without needing someone to try and put words in my mouth

Of course it's speculation. I believe in the fight they had, if Lewis wasn't allowed to lean on Holy and neutralise his inside game it wouldn't have been such a chess match and would have been more like the first Bowe fight where inside battles were forced. And I don't favour Lewis to beat Holy on the inside. I don't Lewis clinched nearly as much as Wlad but it was a facet of his game once he out weight on and without that, he is leaving more openings for an inside battle and Lewis, despite his excellent uppercut, was not the best inside at the elite level. Similar to Wlad's reign, I definitely do not see that lasting as long if he wasn't allowed to clinch or if he wasn't heavy enough to win the clinch.

I hate clinching but it's undeniable how effective it is for the bigger man.

Not debating your last point either, we're too far apart on that opinion.