Rocky Marciano vs Oliver McCall

I'm a paisano and I never, ever picked a fighter based on heritage, doesn't matter a single bit because I don't have a single ounce of nationalistic pride, I could care less where I come from lol.

The only HWs in history that I would pick for certain to beat Marciano are Ali & Louis. And they ain't paisanos.

 

Just to be clear I care very much about the people I come from, but they could've been from anywhere, doesn't matter.

Didn't want to sound like I was disrespecting my peeps

 

As great as Marciano was, I always find fighter's views on past greats to be a bit one-sided. The focus on how tough the past ATGs were, seems the dominant thought for most fighters when questioned. They typically rate toughness over skills, with the emphasis being on fighting, more often than textbook technique, yall get this impression at all?

 

Agree about Marciano's activity level, and his ability to sustain it with the same power in the 'championship' rounds, is what makes me feel a TKO is possible. Not probable, but possible.

 

Whenever a Marciano thread appears I'm always reminded of what Emanuel Steward said. " Marciano was the greatest over achiever in history but he's just too small to engage the heavyweights that came after him."

 

I can't stop thinking about the Lewis-McCall fight for some reason.

I felt so bad for Oliver, he always seemed a nice guy from what I've read. He was in hell that night, but couldn't bring himself to quit, what a strong warrior! He was gonna just take his beating and if Lewis sparked him, so be it - he would go out on his shield.

I believe it was a great show of respect to not only Lewis as the champ, to give him the opportunity to get his revenge & defeat him clearly, but also to the fans who I'm sure he wouldn't want to disappoint by just quitting. He gave Lennox every chance in the world to crush him, just standing there. He was very fortunate in that he wasn't facing a vicious, blood thirsty type of ATG. If it were, say, Big George Foreman in his youth that Oliver was in there with instead, then I fear the legend of his jaw would've taken one 'on the chin', so to speak.

Speaking of big George, he responded perfectly to the situation, speaking some positive, encouraging words towards Oliver about how it was gonna be ok, he was going to be all right. George went on to talk about how so many were suffering then (as now), with turbulent times in their lives, etc.


I can't imagine what the man was suffering in his mind that night, but it was enough to reduce him to tears, something all of Lewis' accumulated blows could not do.

 

Rocky on points. McCall lost a lot of distance fights and stamina is a reason why. He was never a focused fighter and lacks the intangibles needed to win a tough fight. It you look at who he lost to and who he beat and struggled with its the best conclusion.

 

Marciano will give McCall a reason to cry!!!

 

Marciano was the “ greater “ fighter, but it could be argued that McCall is a bad match for him. I’m not completely sold on one over the other. Some reasonable cases are being made for both men.

 

It would be more accurate to say Marciano "out fought and out roughed" them. Marciano didn't "box" to a decision against those two, or anyone for that matter. His intention from start to finish was always to knock your block off and never to outpoint you. He was up close and personal throwing bombs and wearing them down with sheer aggression taking advantage of his huge gas tank and chin. They just couldn't keep up with his pace and occasional ugly, dirty mauling.

Implying McCall was some sort of manly blood and guts boxer. The guy was quite the underachiever with all kinds of mental health issues. Would go into his shell or give rounds away fighting at a slow pace.

McCall could win, but all this hyperbole you wrote about McCall being some awesome, strong, ideal specimen of a boxer is pretty hilarious. For a minute I thought you were describing prime Sonny Liston. McCall had plenty of great physical assets and athleticism, but mentally and emotionally he was fragile. Everyone knows this.

 

Any modern sized heavy kills a 180lb Rocky, nostalgia is his biggest strength for old people that post here

 

His “boxing” style was as an aggressive brawler and I’d add counter puncher. Even being a brawler type is in itself a boxing style…was it a style set up off the jab? No. Was it boxing? Yes. Setting up ur attack on countering and pressure is boxing and takes strategy. Marciano had the best corner of his day make no mistake he listened to his corner. U r right he wanted the Ko in every fight but his corner did apply strategy to him and is visible in his adjustments in his tougher fights. I’ll never understand the notion that some think anyone can enter a boxing ring as an untaught brawler against the finest boxers and win. If you don’t have style, form, tactics, defense, physical attributes ur a goner. Not saying that’s what ur saying but it’s almost implied in the statement that Marciano “didn’t box”. Many styles in boxing.

 

He wasn't a boxer. When people say outbox they mean boxer A skillfully outmaneuvers boxer B, landing a lot but not getting hit back a lot, having good defense, ring generalship, controlling the pace of the fight, and having good form. They are orthodox with a classic stance and technique. They fight behind a jab and let the knockout come of it came, they didn't actively pursue it every minute of every round like a slugger/swarmer.

In no way shape or form can you call what Rocky did to Charles and Lastarza "outboxing" them. He out fought them. He was a swarmer/slugger, not a boxer. I don't know how you can acknowledge there are many styles in boxing and then pretend Rocky was a boxer type. He absolutely was not. Miguel Cotto, Ricardo Lopez, Joe Louis, etc were all for the most part "boxers" and he didn't fight anything like them whatsoever. He was more like an Armstrong, Frazier, Porter, Tyson, Maidana, etc. Those guys very rarely outboxed their opponents, they out fought them.

One of Rocky's best qualities was that he could force his opponent to go guy at his preferred pace/range. He made people uncomfortable with his roughhouse tactics, crowding, suffocating pace and aggression. It was crude but incredibly effective. It actually takes a lot of skill to force someone to fight at your pace. I don't get why Rocky fans get so defensive when this topic comes up as if people are calling him an unskilled caveman. I've been complimenting Rocky throughout this entire post, but what I'm not going to do is pretend he was something he wasn't. He couldn't "outbox" a heavybag.

 

That explanation makes more sense. Depended upon what ur definition of boxing really was. I have no issue w that explanation. There are some that do Insist he was without skill.

 

"Im not kidding myself I'm any kind of Fancy Dan,you know what I look like in there." Marciano.