Rocky Marciano vs Primo Carnera

I don't think you know what "cop out" means. what I'm saying is that you constantly falling back on Rocky not being in his prime despite winning the title less than a year after the Louis fight. And Even after winning the title many opponents landed jabs on rocky, messed up his eye, and had success keeping him at bay for a while.

Let me clarify: I am NOT saying Carners will simply stick his jab out and Rocky will be completely helpless and unable to to anything whatsoever to avoid them or get inside. But to act like Carnera's jab will be a non factor and that Rocky "easily" neutralized it would be equally silly and illogical.

Charles was not having and keeping Marciano away from him, they had a scrappy fight at close and mid range. Charles used angles, defense, and counters to survive. Carnera is not going to be engaging with Rocky on the inside so this is an irrelevant point.

Walcott made Marciano look stupid on the outside with his great footwork and jab. He lasted 13 rounds before Rocky eventually landed that famous Suzie Q. Carnera will not be using cagey technique and fancy footwork, but he will be fighting on the outside and using a jab like Walcott did. Not sure why it's not clicking in your head that if a 6 ft Walcott was able to land many jabs and keep Rocky from simply bulldozing him then carnera should at least have some success doing the same with his enormous height and reach. Do you think it's HARDER for a much taller man to keep a short opponent from getting inside?

Moore was using his crab defense to roll with shots and then land sneaky counters and pick his shots carefully. His game plan was not focused primarily on the jab.

Tyson, Tua, and Frazier beat actual super heavy sized fighters, Rocky didn't. All 3 had faster hands and were anywhere from 30-40 lbs heavier and were more skilled than Rocky. Tyson and Frazier in particular had great defense and head movement and were able to time their taller opponents. Not only that, they often had to really hammer away at the body downstairs before coming upstairs. It took Frazier like 7 rounds before he could really start landing heavy shots to the head against Ali in fight 1. Tyson struggled heavily to land upstairs against guys like Smith and Tucker he wasn't easily landing on their heads even in the later rounds. Again, I am not sure what fantasy land you are living in where a 5'10 68' reach opponent can consistently land to the head of a 6'5 opponent without thoroughly breaking them down first.

Primo had plenty of power in his jab and uppercut Rocky would not be able to shrug either of those. And Rocky was dropped by 2 men who were 60 lbs lighter than primo.

 

I am not allowed to change my mind? I did not watch the schaf and sharkey KO's closely when i made those posts and had written Carnera completely off.

Upon closer reflection and looking at the style break down I do not think this would be easy for Rocky at all. Ali struggled with Cooper whose B level at best yet managed to outclass Sonny Liston. It's about styles.

 

So my very first post, in which i submitted 2 fights of Carnera and went in depth breaking down various moments in both fights, gave you the impression I do not watch fights extensively?

I know you meant in general but you posted it in this thread and now I'm very curious where this accusation is coming from. There is no way I could write what I wrote if I didn't watch films of fighters extensively even if you disagree with it. I am even subscribed to channels like the modern martial artist that breaks down specific fights.

 

Well Bowe is a completely different beast from Rocky h2h if the convo is how either would do against Carnera. Nobody with an IQ over 60 thinks Carnera is actually more skilled and a better h2h fighter than a prime Bowe.

In regards to this thread, you got me. I'm being inconsistent and this was basically a bait thread. But I have good intentions which is to exposes the inconsistency of some posters when it comes to Carnera and his chances in fantasy fights.

People are straight up saying a 70 pound weight difference is irrelevant and a come forward aggressive fighter with short arms would win. And the thing is I don't even disagree, but then some of these same people will say guys like Wladmir or Lennox don't do any better than Carnera despite clearly being way more well rounded and skilled than Carnera. Or if you ask them if someone like Hagler or Jones or Andre Ward could beat Rocky they scoff at the idea despite the fact they are only 10-20 lbs lighter and bring plenty of skill to the table.

 

Thank you.

I actually agree with your overall point that this forum should maybe make a sub forum for h2h matchups because it can get out of hand. Whenever a fighter's name pops up and the thread goes on for more than 2 pages, all of a sudden people gets inspied to make half a dozen threads with that fighter or bump old ones and it clutters the 1st page. The majority of them are either uninteresting or things which we have already discussed 2, 3 or more times already. I have brought this up before with the mods and I do recall Mcgrain cracking down on all the Rocky and Primo threads briefly but it seems we are having a resurgence yet again.

I was on another forum and the mods admitted they allowed the chaos to happens because they knew it would generate traffic for the web side. I am not suggesting that is the case here, but it's certainly possible and it would be disappointing if that were the case. I don't see why we can't simply either make stricter regulation for thread creation or making a separate forum for vs battles. We do often miss potentially interesting threads that get pushed to the 2nd page and lower as a result.

 

EVERY swarmer is susceptible to the uppercut. This is across all weight classes and multiple eras. Rocky simply never encountered a guy with a very great uppercut, let alone a guy 6'5 with a good uppercut.

Frazier and Marciano are not even remotely even in terms of hand speed, head movement, or defense. Agree in terms of toughness and stamina. Slight edge to power for Rocky and a better right hand.

Tyson is better than both in speed, head movement, and defense. Tyson did not have stamina problems in the 80's, it wasn't until the 90's when he lost motivation and slacked off that he had bad stamina. Both Frazier and Tyson were weak to uppercuts and struggled with tall big men who had solid jabs and uppercuts. This is common freaking knowledge.

For the 2nd time I never said Carnera was great on the inside. I said he wouldn't need to be because of the clash of styles.

Marciano's "skill" is not a whole lot better than Baer lol. Let me know when you are ready to get back down to Earth. Carnera has a sprained ankle and Baer is much taller than Marciano with longer arms. He had a much easier time landing on the jaw than 68' reach Rocky would.

Which "less skilled same height" opponents are you referring to that you complain when people say they can beat Carnera?