Rocky Marciano vs Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by HomicideHenry, May 11, 2009.


  1. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    There has been rumors going on since the late 1950's and early 1960's that Marciano had disliked Sonny Liston for one reason or another. There's even a legendary story that Marciano was once at Liston's training camp and over heard Liston say to a reporter that he hit harder than The Rock, to which the retired Marciano openly challenged Liston to a sparring match. Liston supposedly declined the offer.

    While Marciano has been quoted as saying this of Liston, before the champ took on Cassius Clay:

    "Liston is like most big bullies, if you can stay away and make him miss for a few rounds he'll get frustrated. Once you strip away that feeling of invincibility, he can be had."


    It makes you wonder, would Marciano have been able to 'stand up' to Liston, whom he branded a bully, in the ring and have won? Liston by all accounts was almost super heavyweight in proportion, having an 85" reach and had quick hands for such a muscle bound specimen. He was a phenomenal fighter, but his mob connections also make you wonder, if some of his fights weren't in the tank. But the same can be said of Marciano as well, though this is often disregarded.

    Take your pick gentleman, but imo, it would take the absoloute best Marciano to beat Liston. Its 60/40 split in my mind. In Liston's favor.
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Marciano and liston actually got along and marciano spoke VERY HIGHLY of liston. Said he had the best left hand hed ever seen. also spoke extremley well of listons boxing skills.


    I have gone over this fight in my head a billion times peak for peak and I am 100% sure this fight WOULD go the distance. These two had MUCH different styles than foreman and frazier. We have two very durable fighters here who both were very maticulous and calculative on the way they moved in..rocky loves to slowly make his way in while liston loved to sit back and jab. this would not be a bulls charging collision like foreman-frazier. Liston by close unanimous decision.



    Liston rates # 3 and marciano rates # 5 all time
     
  3. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Go the distance?????

    How do you come to this conclusion? Two powerhouses in the ring, and you want to believe it would go a 15 round distance? There's no way. Liston kayoed man after man, so did Marciano. But as big and handy as Liston was, I think Marciano's punches would have better effect putting dents into a battle ship. Liston would have slashed him open inside of six or seven rounds. Marciano would have been a bloody mess.
     
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    you often get results like that

    i fancy Marciano in this one dont know why just a feeling
     
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  5. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    I also must add, why do you say Marciano came out slow? He was a faster starter than Joe Frazier, and he increased the tempo as the fight wore on. Also, where's the proof that Marciano liked Liston? Marciano's closest friends said that he disliked Liston. I would think those closest to him would know best.
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Believe it or not, this battle would be a lot more technically proficient than you believe. both fighters will slip alot of punches in this fight. Listons goal was not to pounce and take his man out...his goal was to relax in the ring staying on the outside and casually jab his mans face into pieces, only if the man pursued him would liston engage. Now Marciano was not a non stop moving forward motion like frazier was...Marciano would slowly and surely make his way in sometimes getting low in his crouch and even leaning back putting alot of weight on that right foot. Marciano did not just swarm in, he would sometimes wait for the other mans mistakes. I can see marciano not moving in in this fight until he times listons jab and gets underneath then the two boys will exchange some big blows. Ultimatley both of these fighters are VERY durable, I see them taking some HUGE punches and staying on there feet, both welts all over. I see liston winning because he cuts up marciano more, lands alot of jabs, and outboxes marciano most of the fight. Liston had the inside fighting skills to neuatralize rockys leverage in close. Early on Listons jab scores cutting rocky below the ey lid. However by round 3 the action picks up, rocky slips listons jab and Rockys hurts liston a couple times with big looping overhand rights and hammers liston to the head and body on the inside but listons gets his own good licks in with very hard short uppercuts that mash marcianos nose in. this is a continues pattern in the middle rounds as liston makes rocky pay dearly to get inside with long straight blows from long range, but at times rocky equalizes the exchance by getting inside and making liston miss and countering with leaping left hooks and volumes of hard punches. Both very strong fighters, they both try to manhandle eachother in the clinch as both fire rabbit punches. By round 12 liston is well ahead on points....but Marciano comes on strong in the end. Liston doesnt seem tired but mentally seems unfocused and marcianos relentless pressure finally seems to be taking its toll on liston. both fighters go toe to toe in the 15th round taking huge leather as the crowd is on there feet cheering them on, HUGE PUNCHES LAND. the bell rings, both give eachother huge gugs. "Your the best man I have ever fought your a great champion" rocky says to sonny. Sonny huffing and puffing says "Rocky they told me you were easy to hit, them reporters are liars! you hit me harder than cleveland williams". Scorecards are announced....


    Liston 144-141 on all 3 judges cards in a war.
     
  7. gottagivafight

    gottagivafight When you least expect it, expect it!!! banned Full Member

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    smash his face in Sonny!!!

    destroy him in the 9th round

    break him, knock him into the corner
     
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Here is what Rocky Marciano said of Sonny Liston after liston knocked out Mike Dejohn in 1959

    "His left jab is the best of any fighter i've seen since Louis. This fellow gets real force into his jabs like Joe used to do. He's great, just great. The left jab set up DeJohn. Then Liston cut him down with a body attack. To me, he appeared a more effective body puncher than Charles. I would have to say Ez is a better boxer. I thought Liston looped his punches more than he should. He should shorten 'em up more. He can move faster than Jersey Joe. I don't know [if he can take a punch]. He really didn't have to fighting DeJohn. A couple of uppercuts shoock. He leggs wobbled but he came right back again."
     
  9. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Liston had a jab that could knock a man's teeth out. I don't see Marciano lasting too long, considering Liston's jab was so great a weapon, and Marciano's skin was his greatest weakness. The Rock would be game, yes, but he would be so badly busted up from that jab, he wouldn't be able to see the bombs coming.
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Believe it or not, this battle would be a lot more technically proficient than you believe. both fighters will slip alot of punches in this fight. Listons goal was not to pounce and take his man out...his goal was to relax in the ring staying on the outside and casually jab his mans face into pieces, only if the man pursued him would liston engage. Now Marciano was not a non stop moving forward motion like frazier was...Marciano would slowly and surely make his way in sometimes getting low in his crouch and even leaning back putting alot of weight on that right foot. Marciano did not just swarm in, he would sometimes wait for the other mans mistakes. I can see marciano not moving in in this fight until he times listons jab and gets underneath then the two boys will exchange some big blows. Ultimatley both of these fighters are VERY durable, I see them taking some HUGE punches and staying on there feet, both welts all over. I see liston winning because he cuts up marciano more, lands alot of jabs, and outboxes marciano most of the fight. Liston had the inside fighting skills to neuatralize rockys leverage in close. Early on Listons jab scores cutting rocky below the ey lid. However by round 3 the action picks up, rocky slips listons jab and Rockys hurts liston a couple times with big looping overhand rights and hammers liston to the head and body on the inside but listons gets his own good licks in with very hard short uppercuts that mash marcianos nose in. this is a continues pattern in the middle rounds as liston makes rocky pay dearly to get inside with long straight blows from long range, but at times rocky equalizes the exchance by getting inside and making liston miss and countering with leaping left hooks and volumes of hard punches. Both very strong fighters, they both try to manhandle eachother in the clinch as both fire rabbit punches. By round 12 liston is well ahead on points....but Marciano comes on strong in the end. Liston doesnt seem tired but mentally seems unfocused and marcianos relentless pressure finally seems to be taking its toll on liston. both fighters go toe to toe in the 15th round taking huge leather as the crowd is on there feet cheering them on, HUGE PUNCHES LAND. the bell rings, both give eachother huge gugs. "Your the best man I have ever fought your a great champion" rocky says to sonny. Sonny huffing and puffing says "Rocky they told me you were easy to hit, them reporters are liars! you hit me harder than cleveland williams". Scorecards are announced....


    Liston 144-141 on all 3 judges cards in a war.
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yes but rocky was very good at slipping and parrying jabs, and proved he could take a powerful 215lb mans jab against joe louis. I dont think Jab will be a major factor, though it will be a factor. Liston will score with it.
     
  12. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree Brockton. I agree that Liston wins, but I don't see it being a 15 round battle, though that would be great. I just hate to admit it, but I think Marciano gets busted up beyond repair and loses on a TKO after six or seven rounds against Liston. And that's the best Marciano I can even imagine. Sure guys like Charles and Walcott missed a time or two against him, but Marciano isn't taking on them this time, he's fighting a BULL of a man, more stronger than himself and whose a better boxer than himself. Now, had it been the Liston post Clay, then that's a different story, but even then, I believe Marciano would have been hurt badly and have one hell of a time with 'Sonny'.
     
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  13. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    The only chance Marciano would have against Liston is if he could somehow turn it into a street fight, an all out slugfest. But even then, its hard for me to imagine Marciano taking Liston's best shots for too long, despite him being probably the best conditioned HW champion since the dawn of Jim Jeffries. Liston was tough, don't let the Clay bouts, the Martin bout fool you. He could take a punch.
     
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  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Marciano destroys any post 1965 version of Sonny, maybe makes him quit on his stool. Look what leotis martin did to that sonny with one Suzy Q. That liston was fat, overweight, very old and couldnt keep up with rockys workrate. However, 1958-1960 Liston now that is a ATG fighter who I pick over pretty much every fighter in history outside of Ali and Louis. I dont see marciano beating that version of sonny unless by knockout, but Marciano was very durable and had the power strength and chin not to get manhandled early on by sonny...and with his leverage crouch and inside fighting and workrate could be rough for sonny. I see based on styles a competitive fight going the distance with Liston winning. I am specificully talking about a 1951 slugger version rocky marciano here, not the 1954-55 swarmer version of the rock.
     
  15. gottagivafight

    gottagivafight When you least expect it, expect it!!! banned Full Member

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    hit him in the guts Sonny!!!!!