Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

:good sure, You also did sonny proud, giving more effort than he ever did at elite level. No hard feelings.

 

O yeah and that is what Floyd Patterson said to himself too until Liston mauled him

Liston would just plain out destroy the guy, and if Marciano retired to avoid Patterson I don't know what he would do to avoid liston, maybe move to cuba.
Only a mover could beat liston or possibly a stronger brawler like foreman or possibly an extremely fast handed hard hitting swarmer with early ko power like Tyson, and the last category is a bit dubious. If Marciano could tire out liston he could win, but I don't see him surviving the punches and the fact that liston had 84 reach to his 67 it'd be nearly impossible for marciano to just land a punch when the other guy has almost on foot on each arm over you.

 

I am not sure if anyone could fairly make Marciano the favorite. Truthfully, it's a fight that's tough to call. It's a puzzle with a few missing pieces. The idea that Liston is a significant favorite, or a heavy favorite should be the bigger argument being made by ardent Marciano fans. I'll pick Rocky but I'm not going to tell you he should be favored. Besides, why wouldn't Liston be favored on paper? He's always going to be that type of fighter who's better in estimation on paper than anywhere else. Fortunately, the fight gets fought in the squared circle.

The argument goes that if Marciano can take some of the necessary licks, without taking anything too much heavy or clean (Latter is most key), then he can make it an inside affair where Liston's longer arms and speed reveal Liston to be clunky and at a disadvantage. Then it becomes a question if Marciano can get himself in position without taking just a disastrous beating on the outside or getting knocked out (Hardly implausible), Liston's mental fragility will begin to surface. Liston may have dealt with the least amount of adversity or sustained resistance before the Ali fights than any other HW champion barring Foreman. He had the 2 round thriller against Cleveland Williams. Hardly an obstacle, more like a speed bump. The last time he had adversity when his jaw was broke and he lost that fight. Only Foreman faced less adversity, but he showed his grit against Lyle and his comeback.

Don't think to mention Tyson. His style forced him to take adversity as much literally as anyone could. His fights where Ruddock were displays of heart and grit tenfold to Liston. It's not just Liston being a bully that people might want to question but it's actually his stamina... his physiologically built in a way that's oxygen taxing (Big boned, dense muscles, long arms, etc). He paced himself. If Marciano can elude and take when he has to, it's going to be the first time someone forced to push Liston at a pace he didn't set and at a range he doesn't prefer since the Ali fights. I think Liston was a splendid fighter at what he did. Top-notch power and great boxing skills. He was so great that he could control the range and pace easily. I wonder if he could against Marciano. I don't just question his heart & toughness. I question his endurance. Luckily, Liston is somewhat ponderous. These weakness don't really complement themselves well together. If it's a sprint, Liston is guaranteed to win. But if it's a marathon... who knows.

 

Where on earth did you get the idea that Marciano retired to avoid Patterson?
You've posted that a couple of times today.

Patterson would have been the last person Marciano would have tried to avoid. I doubt if Marciano had even heard of Patterson.

That's like saying a grizzly bear retired to avoid a mouse.

 

The close I look at Sonnys record the less I am impressed with the quality...Patterson was his best win and Machen and Foley next in line but Machen was KO'd in 1 round by ingo and Foley ko'd by 12-1 Alejandro Lavorante less than a year later then Ko;d by Doug Jones within the next 2 years.

Liston had a good run leading up to Patterson but IMO his best wins of his career were over a faded Nino Valdes, Foley and Machen after Floyd Patterson who was his best and most impressive win as well as Big Cat but Williams is not even in the class of a Ron Lyle or a Tony Thompson or Mac Foster IMO

So while Liston should get credit for beating the best of his time, he fought a weak bunch minus Patterson, Machen and Foley who were good contenders but not outstanding in any other era IMO


By the way good post

 

Marciano defended his title 6 times in 4 years. His reign was not very long, he pro boxed for 7 years then retired. he retired at 32 and some months. For someone who has never lost a match, I don't know what else you call it. You can say he went out on top, fine, but the guy went out on top because he knew he would lose to patterson.

Patterson only won gold medal in the olympics, Marciano would never had heard of him. Cus d'amato only made a major press release in 1954 saying Patterson was going to go for the heavyweight championship.

Archie Moore knocked down Marciano, marciano put down moore 5 times by round 9. Patterson annihilated him in 5 and Moore never got up. Patterson was younger, faster, hit harder and more evasive and had good endurance. By the time marciano retired Patterson knocked out 10 of his last 11 opponents. Further at that point Patterson had never been down either. And I use to see lots of moose and a moose is bigger, weighs more and is more scary than a grizzly it can be 7.5 feet tall weigh 1600 pounds and gore a bear dead.

Marciano's managers admitted that they would only match him up against guys he could defeat and asthe old axiom in boxing goes an undefeated fighter is usually one who just either dodged competitors or had a weak era. Old man walcott out boxed marciano for 13 rounds, you think a younger faster guy wouldn't? Marciano beat up alot of past greats, but they were all almost 40 in a time when the average man lived to be about 50 something.

 

Liston's jab would cut him up in a competitive fight. Liston wins on cuts sometime after 8 rounds.

 

According to boxrec, Jacques Royer-Crecy knocked him down in the 1st. Besides, he won his medal at the Olympics as a middleweight, that's really not a solid reason for Marciano to be afraid of him. The way I see it, Rocky could have continued to fight and defend his title for at least 1 or 2 years untill Floyd becomes a worthy contender.

 

yeah Rocky could have continued defending his title but he ran out of 40 year old men to beat up on and run circles around.

 

please do some more research...

 

Charles was 33 years old. Maybe not exactly prime, but not 40 year old man either. Cockell was 27, LaStarza was 26. That's better, at least in my opinion, than defending your title against Pete Rademacher in his pro boxing debut.

 

Not many fighters were the same after a fight with Marciano, Rex Layne was totally ruined and he was young as well as the 6'4 Carmine Vingo, Moore was on his best run ever leading up to Marciano and Walcott was one of the fittest men to put on gloves at 38...Charles was 32 and fresh off 2 electric KO's ....You have your facts twisted Patterson was not even really considered to fight Marciano, he had lost to light heavyweight Joey Maxim and Cus wanted no part of Marciano and was going to stay at 175lbs if Marciano did not retire...Floyd got dropped in almost every fight and was KO'd by the crude Ingo, You would have to really love Floyd to give him any kind of chance vs an aggressive 2 fisted puncher....Moore took one of the worst beatings of his life vs Marciano and a beat-down like that is hard to recover from in such a short period of time.

 

Who would have Rocky Marciano defended his title next, before he retired.

???