Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

How many fighters over 210 pounds did marciano fight who were under 32? Marciano beat up old men, or he beat old moving tired men, but he did not beat up young strong guys, he didn't fight them

 

I think a TKO is more likely than actual KO, unfortunately TKO was not one of the listed choices.

I'm not normally a gambling man but in a 15 rounder I'd be tempted to put a small wager on Marciano TKOing Liston. There are a lot of unanswered questions about how Liston successfully deals with adversity in combat...I think in a 15 rounder against Marciano there's a good chance Liston would find himslef in adverse situation(s)...

 

Who were those young strong guys you think Marciano avoided?

 

SP, you have been around the game for a while and what you forgot some of these guys will never know......As much as I always liked Sonny some of these guys think he is Sonny"King" Kong

 

I know all about Listons huge reach and great jab. Liston had a stunning walk down jab but Marciano could cope with walk down jabs because his low lurching crouch discouraged the use of a real fall in straight left as this shield of elbows and shoulder offered fewer openings on the outside at the optimum height.

The committed effort required for a long booming jab like Listons brought you closer into Marciano’s range anyway. Its not that Rocky could not get hit with jabs or stopped jabs being thrown but he forced the other guy to adapt his jab to a fending, defensive spacer, limiting its effectiveness. I have reviewed the Louis - Marciano fight to see just how successful Louis was with his jab.

Joe Louis was looking to meet Rocky with walk down jabs and counter combinations but was smothered and barged into the ropes at each turn. It did not work. He had no room. Having been belted and mauled in the first two rounds Old Louis was forced to adapt. Upping his pace to find room in rounds 3,4 and 5 Louis got a fending jab and defensive footwork going but even this type of jab gave no room to work off it and Joe was still getting clipped. Rocky was still pressing when Joe first did this in round 3 but it was a more even round. Then Rocky chose to allow Louis to expend himself whilst looking to counter with single pitching from outside. It was the wrong choice. Rocky was not drawing Louis onto anything and lost those two rounds. 2 of 8. It could be argued that rather than letting Joe into the fight the effort of staying away drained Louis. In round 6 rocky went right back to mauling and Louis was never in the fight again. The “step off” fending jab only worked for a mere 2 rounds for Louis and its success was more due to both changing tactics than Rocky not coping with a jab. Clearly Joe could not maintain distance with it until Rocky altered his own tactics in round 4.

Liston wont need a jab to beat Rocky he just needs to be better than Marciano at medium to close range, I am not sure that he was. Punch power, unpredictable punch sequence and work rate favour Rocky inside IMO.

 

Thanks Bummy,,,,,,,,,

Very simply, give Sonny a little movement, and you could baffle him, as
he was 'not' a quick thinker in the ring.

Stay in front of him as a stationary target, and he'd destroy you.

 

Oh, I get it now. :good

Rocky is going to "baffle" Sonny with "a little movement", huh?

Maybe some advanced stick and move technique, huh?

Would he maybe throw in an Ali Shuffle to further "baffle" Sonny?

 

I think there is another way to beat Sonny get inside of his long reach and in range...Sonny was old when he got KO'd by Leotis Martin but lets also remember martin was only a better than average puncher, how does Sonny survive a true puncher, not a Big Cat Williams who IMO and judging by his record a slightly above average puncher and IMO Sonny never fought a real puncher...I am not knocking him he fought the best of his time but my thought are get to Sonny's chin on the inside

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgrwGNLTUH4[/ame]

 

How many good fighters did Liston beat who were over 200 Lbs?

 

Liston beat-

Zora Folley KO3, 198 Lbs.

Eddie Machen W12, 196 Lbs.

Floyd Patterson KO1 x2, 189 and 194 Lbs.

Cleveland Williams (who actually kinda sucked) KO3 and KO2, 210 and 215 Lbs.

Who else?

Johnny Summerlin W8 and WSD8

Marty Marshall 2 out of 3, he weighed 180 Lbs when he beat Liston

Bert Whitehurst x2, W10 x2, 190 Lbs

Wayne Bethea, Frnakie Daniels, Ernie Cab, Mike DeJohn, Nino Valdes, Willi Besmanoff, Howard King x2, Roy Harris, Albert Westphal, Henry Clark, Chuck Wepner? Who gives a ****?

Folley, Machen, and Patterson are good wins. All of them were under 200 Lbs. Patterson was down more than any other HW Champ in history (20 times). Folley was not very durable. Machen was pretty durable and did go the distance with Liston... he did get stopped in 1 round by Johansson though. Patterson had good power but Folley and Machen not so much.

 

Cleveland Williams 2x, Henry Clark, Nino Valdes, Mike DeJohn

 

Marciano beat-

Roland LaStarza W10 and KO11, 187 Lbs. Yes, the first fight was close... LaStarza was down in the 4th and Marciano lost a point for lowblows in the 8th.

Rex Layne KO6, 193 Lbs.

Joe Louis KO8, 214 Lbs. He had won his last 8, 3 by KO.

Lee Savold KO6, 200 Lbs.

Harry Matthews KO2, 180 Lbs.

Jersy Joe Walcott KO13 and KO1, 197 and 198 Lbs.

Ezzard Charles W15 and KO8, 186 and 193Lbs.

Don Cockell KO9, 205 Lbs.

Archie Moore KO9, 189 Lbs.

 

I said GOOD

 

Williams is one of the most overrated fighters ever. Clark was nothing special and neither was DeJohn. Valdes sucked plus he was washed up when he fought Liston.

 

I'd bet it in a second.