Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

Great list!..And I always thought you were a serious poster!!

And mcvey check out my post about "Brawlers and Boxers"..

 

This is another example of your technological analysis ?
King went the 10rds with
Zora Folley.
Charlie Powell.
Bob Satterfield.
Hurricane Jackson. 6 Months after being stopped by Liston in 8rds.
Archie Moore x5.
Harold Johnson.
Karl Mildenberger.
Wilie Besmanoff.
Pat McMurtry.
Amos Lincoln.
A year later Liston fought King again, he stopped him in 3rds.

King had drawn two of those fights, both with contenders, Charlie Powell ,and Archie Moore. His loss to Chuvalo was not "recent ," it had happened two years earlier. King had also gone the distance with Chuvalo earlier, winning a decision.

So much for your "technology".

 

In terms of legacy I rate Marciano much higher, he never lost, he improved in rematches, he overcame adversity all the best attributes you can give an ATG. In a prime head to head with Liston though he is giving away alot of physical advantges and he is an attack fighter which means he would be wading right into his flaws. If it got late in the fight I wouldn't go against the Rock for those aforementioned reasons but it IS asking alot of the Rock to go and trade with Liston which is what he would have to do. A true slugfest.

 

If the fight goes into the late rounds Marciano's chances increase,imo.Trouble is I think he gets tkod before then.

 

That is the magic question, no doubt Marciano proved what he does when the fight the fight got into deep water. Can he get past Listons natural attributes to take him into the place most fighters refuse to tread?

 

I guess I have to post this again:




-Here are the RING Monthly ratings posted by Edward Moebius:

Ring Rankings in October, 1953, issue to August 18.

Champ--Rocky Marciano

1--Roland LaStarza
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Dan Bucceroni
4--Nino Valdes
5--Tommy Harrison
6--Bob Satterfield
7--Heinz Neuhaus
8--Don ****ell
9--Earl Walls
10-Harry Matthews

Losses by LaStarza, Charles, and Bucceroni and Valdes wins put Nino at #1 at the end of the year, but he fell out of the #1 spot in early 1954 when his management avoided a rematch with Charles, Charles ko'd Satterfield in the elimination fight Valdes skirted, and Valdes looked bad in barely beating Archie McBride. Charles then took over the #1 spot again.

Ring Magazine rankings August, 1954 issue

Champ--Rocky Marciano

1--Ezzard Charles
2--Nino Valdes
3--Don ****ell
4--Jimmy Slade
5--Roland LaStarza
6--Hurricane Jackson
7--Dan Bucceroni
8--Bob Baker
9--Earl Walls
10-Heinz Neuhaus

After the two Marciano-Charles fights, Valdes regained the #1 ranking after ko'ing Jackson. However, Archie Moore, who had beaten Valdes and ko'd Harold Johnson and Baker, began demanding a fight with Marciano, and was viewed by most as the real #1 contender. He was matched with Valdes in May, 1955 and beat him again, dropping Valdes out of the top spot permanently. Of Marciano's opponents, LaStarza, Charles, and Moore were all rated above Valdes when he fought them. Only ****ell, at #2, was rated under Valdes.



-Thanks to Moebius' research it is clear that LaStarza and Charles were RING #1

-The early 50s were way too wild to use Ring Annual Ratings as an exact guage.

 

See link below, and note date October 7th 1954.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6bkyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3A8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6209,5914676

 

This would have been after the second Charles fight.

Note:

"Charles was designated the only contender before his first bout with Maricano last June."

So this in fact confirms Charles was also recognized as #1 by the NBA prior to the Marciano fights.

So Moebius was correct, ****ell was the only #2 Marciano met. And an understandable soft touch after a horrific nose injury and lay off. Not surprisingly it was Rocky's worst performance as Champion.

Moore at this time had just defeated Johnson and would go on to eliminate Valdez at the same time as Marciano/****ell fight, making himself the most deserving and logical contender to Marciano's crown.

 

Thanks Mongoose, I really did not have time this weekend to search but appreciate your input & knowledgeable fact-finding

 

Mongoose there are few picking for lint to back there very weak agenda but facts will not change them

 

but who was as poor as king who could stretch a prime Marciano 8 rounds? There is no point sugar coating those results either. Howard King was knocked out twice in one round before facing Liston. King may have went 10 rounds once with zora folley but he was also knocked spark out in the first round the previous time he met folley....and this was before facing Liston. Altogether Zora knocked king out twice. King was also up ended in one round against duke sabedong. Even Brian London made quicker work of poor old Howie King than Liston did first time....An ancient Archie Moore also knocked King out in one round. You just cant find this kind of guy on Marcianos record lasting that many rounds at his best. Why is Sonny going to TKO marciano earlier than he could stop King?

 

A touch of irony with my "soft touch" remark.

A "soft touch" for Maricano after recovering from a grotesque injury was taking on his #2 contender before meeting his #1 later that summer.

 

-Probably his worst performance as Champion though still dominating. I think it comes down to Cokell being inspired and Maricano being rusty and off his game in his first fight after the nostril injury. He probably still would have beat Valdez, but it would have been ugly, so in retrospect a smart move to test the waters before jumping back in the pan. He got a better and more dangerous opponent than Valdez later that year in Moore anyway.

-Yeah, that seems to be the case with almost every HW Champion.