Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

One fight previous Liston scores with a win that matches his best ever. I am sure if he got old over night (like you say) that could only be explained if Patterson was so much of a sitting duck, shell of himself both times. Liston did not have enough competative fights to get all that wear and tear. His "night train" training act was so impressive leading up to the Clay fights they sold tickets to watch medicine balls bounce off Sonny like he was superman. Standing on his head, pounding heavy bags etc. It was a sight to behold. Then he gets old over night? To be fair, I think 1960 was his best year.

 

Not compared to Liston. He had a run of one successful title defence. A retirement of Sonny at that point leaves even less to go on when assessing his worth.

 

Walcott was as hard to beat against Marciano the first time as at any point there is evidence of him on film. Fantastic fight fought hard every inch of the way. World class. It was a driven effort set at a crazy pace. One of the finest losing efforts on record.

Second time? No way. He was a shell.

 

of the two fights Patterson was the same both times. He just got up more times second time around. In fact it took Sonny less time to get going second time than first time. Patterson did not show his usual vim either time. There is NO difference.

 

So he ,"got old overnight" then.

 

The Second time Walcott fought Marciano it was his very next fight. The fights were only like 8 months apart. I don't know if I could say he was a shell one fight later, in terms of his skills and reflexes vanishing. If anything I think the frightful KO he suffered at the hands of Rocky may have permantly given his brain an off switch because first serious punch he took that was all she wrote in rematch. He was either seriously hurt or at his age after getting caught-said do I really want to go through this again-maybe a combination of both. Sometimes that happens look at Roy Jones with Tarver 2 and the Glen Johnson. Takes time to recover from a shot like he received in first fight.

 

It has been said that it was a lucky punch that caught him, but Marciano was practising that shot prior to the fight, it was thought it would be effective against Walcott.

It was a hard punch but Walcott was an old guy ,plus as you say, his resolve may just have melted away.
After being put through the meat grinder with Rocky once, most fighters were not the same after. AJ Leibling ,who was at both the Walcott fights said Walcott seemed to accept the stoppage until the chorus of boos began , then he feigned outrage and pantomimed that he was up in time.

Later Walcott claimed he blacked out in the middle of the count and when he picked it up it was too late.

Quarry said something similar against Chuvalo I believe.

It was an unfortunate way for Walcott to end his career,and a shame that it tarnished the win in some peoples eyes , but not Marciano's fault . Rocky was very pissed that he was denied the credit that he deserved for the ko.

 

Rocky injured his back and retired. But if you watch the films he was already on the decline before the Moore fight. For example., Rocky looks much better vs Louis and Layne. He looks sloppy and slower vs. Moore.

Forward moving swarmers that take a lot of leather do not last long. Rocky said he might have 1-2 more fights left him in when he announced his retirement. He understood what his body was telling him, though he did contemplate a comeback years later. Staying retired was a wise move for him.

 

I'm pretty sure no one said anything about The Ring which is, after all, only a magazine - its ratings don't have any special status.

 

Marciano wasn't frozen out of title contention and then didn't have to run into anything resembling a Clay/Ali.

You can't have it both ways, to excuse Marciano's rather early retirement (and short stay at the top) and simultaneously chastise Liston for his performances when he either pushing or past 40.

 

I think he (choke) actually sparred Liston ... :nut

 

was Liston Frozen out of title contention though? I don't think Liston was owed an automatic title shot until 1961 at the earliest. It was his 1960 results that demanded a shot. Nothing else before that could warrant automatic, mandatory status. No way was Liston deserving a shot before ingo in 1959.