Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

Marciano was marked up in every major fight he had lets not be silly here.

 

Lets not forget that Marciano was knocked down by a 40' ish light heavyweight.
Leotis Martin wasn't a puncher? Well he killed Sonny Banks!

Liston was an old man when Martin beat him, Martin may very well have done the same thing to Marciano if he had fought to that age"

Who says Marciano was the biggest puncher Liston fought? Did he hit harder than Williams ? DeJohn?
Liston quit in 1 fight, when past his best against the greatest of all time . Roberto Duran quit once,does that mean when things get tough he would do it again?

Did Liston quit when Williams broke his nose ,When Marshall broke his jaw?
Liston lost to180.5lbs Lowry on a split dec fighting with a broken jaw.Many think 177.75lbs Ted Lowry beat Marciano and Marciano wasn't hampered by a broken jaw!

Which short crouchers beat Liston?
Rocky was a bleeder , he was cut against far less powerful punchers than Liston.
His face would be a bloody mess after 6rds with Listons jab thudding into it. Prime Liston took the shots of Williams DeJohn ,Valdes.
Marciano never faced a puncher like Sonny.
This is a beatdown

 

Muhammad Ali was knocked down by a 180 pounder too.

Primo Carnera killed a guy too. Nobody blames carnera. When a fighter dies the career is blamed, never the opponent.

yes, Marciano knocked out rated fighters. Williams and Dejohn never knocked out rated or men of any relevance. It makes them less effective than Marciano.

Liston was coming off his best win. Was he past his best for that too?

Duran at least redeemed himself. Right after quitting Liston did not show much enthusiasm in the return fight. Sonny practically quit twice. I think it is a factor worth noting. In title fights Sonny had just two rounds worth of having his way with Floyd and 8 rounds worth of quitting against Ali. He never won a competitive fight for the title. Patterson was a blow out both times. Shooting fish in a bucket. Where was the resistance or competition in those fights?

Against Williams Sonny was having success. I think a fighter is less likely to quit if he's already winning or still thinks he can win. Fighters give up once they have decided they won't win.

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Again, marshal was a little guy, I imagine Sonny felt he had a chance to get back into the fight. With his weight, height, reach, strength advantages Perhaps Sonny had not decided he could not win?

if Sonny was unbeatable against 176 pounders he would not have lost to marshal at all.

at 177 Ted Lowry was closer in size to Rocky. Ted would need to break Rockys jaw whilst weighing 147lb for that to match what happened to Sonny.

I imagine all the ones that were as great and hit as hard and were as game as Rocky.

Sonny was a bleeder too. Liston was not hard to hit. Westphal hit Sonny almost as many times as Sonny hit him. Imagine Rocky with that ratio? In fact Sonny was cut a good few times. All fighters are bleeders. How many times was Rocky stopped on cuts? In the history of the sport I don't think any reigning heavyweight champ ever lost his title on a cut. Referees tend to stop only challengers on cuts.

why would Sonnys jab necessarily be thudding into Rockys face? Sonny barely hit a lesser fighter like Westphal with a effective jab. It is true Sonny had a magnificent jab but it was an attacking punch rather than a scoring punch designed to knock upright guys into the ropes. The power was level with the shoulder not below it.

Rocky beat better punchers than the guys that Sonny beat because the guys that Rocky beat were knocking out rated fighters and champions. How many champions did DeJohn, Williams and Valdez knockout?

or a quitjob

 

How freaking ******ed are Marciano fans. Well you are extremely ******ed. It is like saying since Duran fought punchers like Tommy Hearns and Hagler that mean he could handle Tyson Fury's punching power.

Marciano faced 180 pound guys. No matter how hard you want to believe they punched at the weight class how does that equate to guys who were 30 plus pounds bigger? Ted Lowry a 177 pound guy with limited power almost knocked out Marciano for crying out load.

Sonny Liston knocks out Marciano worse than the did Floyd Patterson.

 

Yeah,...and then you woke up!! Liston QUIT while sitting on his stool...as CHAMPION!!! Never mind handpicking a point in Sonny's career...as champ...he quit against the light hitting Cassius Clay...and we all know what happened up in Maine in May 1965...don't we folks!!!???

 

Liston would wear down a game but outgunned Rock. Given Liston's power and The Rocks aggressiveness i can see it finishing by 6. This is a bad one stylistically for Rocky for mine.

 

The logical choice is Liston but the fact remains when faced with with ATG adversity he quit twice against a relative light punching green Clay. Fact.

If Marciano can turn it into a close quarter battle war he does have a good chance to grind Liston down or make him quit, a tall order but not impossible.

One thing for sure, Marciano has definitely more will power that Liston, no doubt, if that propels him to the win is the 10000000 dollar question.

I am in the minority here but I am not sold on Liston's chin in a fire fight...........totally shot Bowe or Tyson took horrendous beatings while completely washed up from huge guys but never needed the sniffing salt to wake up......Liston did need it.

 

I used to pick Liston in this matchup.
But I'm starting to lean towards Marciano.
I can see Liston smothering Rocky, and knocking him down with clubbing blows.
But I don't see how he wins the fight with Rockys heart and determination.

 

So does Golovkin, some guys just love to fight I guess.

 

He's up against a tough one here is marciano no doubt. He always came back from adversity in the past but he's facing a slight version of foreman, and I have George stopping rock. The only way Marciano wins is if he manages to get in close and pummel away at Liston, hurt him and put doubts in his mind. Mentally rather than physically Liston wasn't the strongest heavy weight. To get Sonny to the point that it's just going to get worse in there for him. I don't see marciano just stopping him solely on power alone. And of course rocky s going to be taking the punches of a hard hitting guy with a jab like a totem pole. So in this I lean to rock getting hit and hurt early whilst trying to get close to Sonny, but eventually marciano s face will suffer the most and the ref stops it some point in the middle round s

 

Everyone Rocky hit he hurt or knocked them out. If Rocky can hit Liston he can beat Liston. He only has to hit as hard as Marshall, Clay and Martin To beat Sonny. Does anyone here say Rocky cannot hit as hard as Clay or Martin?

Everyone hit Liston. In a terrible mismatch Westphal never should have put a glove on Sonny but he did. Imagine Rocky landing that many times so early?

At 187-189 Rocky was a 190 guy (not a 180 guy) when the best men were around 190. What's wrong with that?

Sonny was a 210 guy when all the best guys were still 190. Yet still Sonny was dropped and lost to a 176 guy. It was the same era that Rocky fought in!

Let's not use the point that Rocky only beat 190 guys when Sonny was dropped by a 176 guy!

As a contender Rocky beat the #1 contender who was 6'1", 213lb and 8-0 in the last 12 months. So let's disregard the "Rocky can't beat world rated men as big as Sonny" who was exactly that weight and an inch shorter when he won the title.

 

You go all cross eyed when Liston''s name comes up. Liston left Westphal laying face first in under 2 minutes. Westphal landed "that many times"???? He barely laid a glove on Liston, what planet did you watch this on?

The proof against your dramatic fibs simply lay in the extremely clear footage.

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As for this long running fixation on this "176 guy", you've been hammered numerous times on it before. I don't see him weighing as low as 176 in any of their fights. As for the loss it was Liston's 8th pro fight, his handlers didn't show up, he suffered a broken jaw and on top of this Marshall could fight a bit and was more experienced. 8th pro fight LOLOL!

I'm also dubious Marshall ever dropped him.

Here's Liston's account of their first fight -

http://www.boxing.com/early_train_to_broken_jaw.html

Liston battered him 5 months later for good measure and then beat him again a bit later without losing a round.

 

How old was that 180 pounder?
Was Ali in his prime,the reigning champion when that happened?
Carnera killed no one ,Schaaf died as the result of coming back to boxing too soon after a particularly bad case of influenza and,possibly the lingering effects of a bad ko he received against Baer.Nobody blames Carnera because he wasn't responsible for Schaaf's death! Schaaf went down from an innocuous left hand,and the crowd booed and shouted FAKE!

So you have to ko rated men to be considered a puncher? How many did Mac Foster ko?Earnie Shavers?lol

Liston said Williams was the hardest puncher he fought.
De John? Mike DeJohn, the baby of the fighting DeJohn brothers, became a heavyweight contender when he scored a upset first round knockout of ranked contender Alex Miteff in Syracuse on October 9, 1957. At one time DeJohn had the fastest K.O. on television for a heavyweight when he axed Charlie Powell in 47 seconds.

Your hypothesizing as usual and as usual making unsupported claims,and wild projections.
You think? Yeah well after your input on the Carnera thread, I'm not too concerned about that!

Marshall was 180.5lbs for the Liston fight he won asplit decision because Liston had his jaw broken.
Liston owned him in their 2 subsequent fights!
Apart from the Ali fight which fights was Liston cut in?
Marciano was cut against;
Simmons
Moore
Walcott
Louis
Vingo
Charles x2
He was in danger of being tkod against Simmons and told that he would have one more round against Charles 2nd fight.

Watch the Liston v Westphal fight and seriously tell me it was competitive!

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TBH I think you post was absolute tripe!

 

I used to think he was a good poster I've now relegated him to Mendoza status!

 

Lets just disregard you! Because you are spouting NONSENSE!