Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

You are correct Perry but this does not detract from the fact that He was a genuine contender and as big as Liston at that time. Joe was 8-0 in 12 months. He earmed that position of #1 contender. This means, in response to those who say Rocky never beat a world class 213lb guy, Rocky did beat "a top contender" of Liston physical size even if he was no longer the Joe Louis of old.

 

At 50,000 feet yes. But fighting an old Louis could be a different story vs fighting a prime Liston. With youth comes reflexes and speed that were missing from Joe when Rocky fought him. I tend to believe Marciano with his will to win would grind Liston down and make him quit as he did vs Ali.

 

Do the math . Wow Louis was half an inch taller than Liston!
Louis's measurements were taken from his last fight against Marciano!

Liston was bigger in;
Neck 0.5"
Reach 8"
Chest 2"
Expansion 1.5"
Bicep1.5"
Wrist O.5"
Thigh 3"
Calf 0.5"
Ankle1"
Fist 3.75"


You are a nonsense do you know that!

 

Louis was not his old self, that is for sure, but he still had enough left for that 8-0 record in 12 months and genuinely establish #1 status. The Louis point is purely to demonstrate a win over a world class man of the same size.

Marciano sceptics will have folks believe any world class guy of Listons size would be too much for Rocky. They really would push this. Louis demonstrated this is not true.

Joe Louis was not a dead body. He was not dug up. and Louis most certainly was not a smaller man in 1951 than Sonny Liston.

 

I am a nonsense? You are the one trying to say a 0.5" calf "advantage" erases 1951 Joe Louis being a taller #1 contender of the same weight as Sonny Liston. Come on Big Mac, this is getting funny.

 

Also Liston had a reach advantage.

 

Yes you are correct. Liston had a reach advantage over everyone. And that reach advantage did not stop Liston losing to a guy lighter than Rocky. Sonny reach did not prevent him getting knocked out by two lighter punchers than Rocky. and let's not forget this reach advantage did not stop Liston Quitting in two of the four important fights he had.

 

How old was Sonny though? Some have said he was (or could have been) as old as 40 in the Clay fights. Not that I believe it, but some might suggest that Liston was not only the same weight as a 1951 Joe Louis for the Patterson fights but he also might have been the same "age" as 1951 Louis in those fights!

 

Louis and Liston were about the same size.
Both were considerably bigger than Marciano.

 

If you don't believe it, why are you bringing it up? And if Liston really was 38 when he crushed a prime, experienced defending champion like a bug, that would just mean that he was an even more awesome fighter than he actually was.

 

The use of the one-armed mummy that faced Marciano as some sort of measuring stick for prime ATG's like Liston is a benchmark example of intellectual dishonesty.

 

How many other "one armed Mummy's" went 8-0 in 12 months to establish #1 contender status? Is "one armed mummy" an established view of Louis going into that fight with Rocky? Louis was the betting favourite.

I have stressed over and over that Joe Louis "was not his old self". So Nobody can accuse me of that.

I am simply saying it is a fact Louis was taller and as heavy As Liston and a genuine world class contender at that time.

I am sorry that this fact rules out the notion that Marciano cannot beat any world rated 213 pound 6 foot plus contender though. Because I know that is what the sceptics want.

It is appalling to call this intellectual dishonesty when all I am doing is highlighting documented fact that you are all aware of. I am fine with those who think Sonny wins. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even the ones with firmly established opinions about calf and neck measurement advantages.

 

In general size is not beating prime Marciano. No chance. Ability could beat Marciano. Louis at his best had the ability to beat Marciano. Dempsey at his best had the ability to beat Marciano. (And so on). Liston certainly had the punching power to knock anyone out the question would be could Rocky get through tough moments early to take Liston heart. An unanswerable question but we do know Liston sat on his stool and gave up his world hwt championship in a fight where he was not being horribly beaten up. I don't see Liston being able to control Rocky with his jab and I do see Marciano having no issue getting inside and pounding away. Tough call but if I had to bet I would go with prime Marciano late by TKO.

 

Remind me: who in this thread has said that Marciano cannot beat any contender of that size?

 

Liston was in his prime 4 years before he beat Paterson. Sonny was avoided by world champs for a long while before Floyd stepped up.