Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hookie, Sep 25, 2012.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    42,774
    12,968
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 11, 2005
    How would Rocky have done if his second title defense was against a 22 year old Clay?

    At that point his greatest accomplishments would have been tipping over an old mummy and beating some white clods like Layne and Matthews.
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    51,590
    11,060
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 24, 2005
    white clods ?
    Was it that ?
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Interesting that Rocky got suspended in Maine, the same state of the Lewiston debacle.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Do you think Marciano would not carry on with a broken jaw against a 158lb man? That's the equivalent isn't it? It's a bit easier coasting rounds with that kind of size advantage.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,812
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    But I'm not saying Marciano would quit .Liston we know fought with a broken jaw in one fight and a broken nose in another. He had his face busted up in the latter rounds by Martin and it was obvious he was gassing but he didnt quit,he went out on his shield.
    Liston didnt coast rounds against Marshall he treid to win them he only lost a split decision!More dishonesty!
    Have you ever had your jaw broken? A friend of mine did in a fight ,it doesn't matter who the f*ck breaks it, it hurts to the same extent your argument is nonsensical.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    Seamus likes this.
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Liston was a brave man. All fighters are brave men. Among the greatest of all time champions some hairs need to be split. At that level. Among The top echelons things need to be taken into account like did one guy over come a size advantage. Did one guy lose to a smaller guy or not. Did one guy quit or not at that level. These are not an attack but valid points worth considering. That's all I am saying.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,812
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Which one was in danger of being stopped by a177lbs journeyman with 49losses on his record?
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    But he didn't lose did he? Which one lost to a journeyman who was 23lb lighter? Sonny Liston did.

    These are the kinds of comparisons I am talking about. I know your going to say "but Rocky had 22 odd fights by then compared to 9 fights" well yes he did and Rocky was not posing huge physical advantages in reach, weight and power over the little 22lb lighter journey man was he?

    The thing that comes up is Rocky can't deal with that power, well Marty Marshall did and he was lighter than Rocky. I know it was early in Sonnys career but other guys like Whitehurst were able to survive such power.

    The other thing that comes up is Rocky never overcame the actual physical presence of a world class man of similar size to Liston but he did! You don't want to hear that because Joe Louis was not the brown bomber anymore. well he may not have been the brown bomber anymore but he was 8-0, he did knock out a current paper champion and leading contender so Old Louis must still qualify as being a world class man of similar size to Liston. Without film of that fight we would not be able to see how Rocky can operate against that kind of obstacle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,812
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Whitehurst was knocked right out of the ring in their rematch he was in the process of climbing back in when the final bell rang! Very bad tactical move on your part! Louis was not on a par with Liston in physical dimensions and there is simply no way of avoiding, spinning ,ignoring ,altering,that fact!
    We should start calling you the 3 D's!
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    No matter that Whitehurst was climbing back into the ring at the end of that fight Burt still survived 20 rounds with Liston despite also being 22 pounds lighter than Sonny.

    I think you would have something to say if Rocky went 20 rounds with a guy who had been stopped 4 times who was 22 pounds lighter than marciano was. Can you imagine the hubbub that would cause? Rocky can't knockout a 158lb guy?

    Why was Burt prepared to fight Sonny a second time if Sonny was always so dominant against guys less than 190lb? According to an article Burt was also prepared to face Sonny a third time. For some reason He seemed to think he had Sonnys number. Now of course Whitehurst did not have Sonnys number and no doubt Liston would keep beating Burt if they fought a hundred times but it seems that this is another example of Sonnys size not always proving to be so reliable in this era against guys of far less talent than Rocky.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    What no Liston??? How come?
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,812
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Do you know I'm done here you just go round and round in circles.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,629
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    But which account of Listons do we take seriously he told the story differently each time it was published. One time he said he "gaped" in astonishment at marshalls whooping. Another time he said he was laughing at Marshall.

    Without film we will never know.

    Even In Sonny Liston biographies Marshal is directly quoted that it did not happen.

    I dont see why it is so important to cling to the idea that only laughter was responsible for Liston breaking his jaw. The story really does not stand up.

    Liston stated that Marshall was also hollering and whooping himself. It just seems unlikely, and unsurprisingly, that also never made it into the only report. Unsurprisingly The Detroit star did not mention hollering, whooping, laughing or gaping from the fighters in their report.

    Getting a jaw broken does not detract from a fighters legacy. Sonny Liston was a one time major force in the division. He left a good legacy. I dont see how he needs an unsupported excuse like this.
     
  14. pvignare

    pvignare New Member Full Member

    14
    5
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 28, 2017
    My guess this fight goes one of two ways, a tko ending in the mid rounds with Marciano a bloody mess kept at bay by Sonny's left jab or Marciano knocking out Liston late. This supposes the rock's crouch allows him to pierce the left jab of Liston. The longer this fight goes the more this would be in favor of Marciano though


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,055
    3,326
    Sportsbook:
    1,042
    Jul 30, 2014
    Agreed. Rocky would have a much better chance of beating Foreman than Liston imo. I don't see him beating either imo.