Rocky Marciano vs Sonny Liston

Your entitled to this of course, in my opinion such superiority has to have been based on what actually happened in the ring. Liston shared an era with Ingo, Patterson and Clay. He only fought two of them and lost disastrously to Ali.

Everyone looks great winning. It's difficult to imagine a good winner losing watching his best night. Getting a start like that. However, it's measuring a guy when things get tough and what level the tough moments came in. Everyone gets tested. There is no superman. Even Ali and Louis had tough times and they came through with flying colours. Marciano was also tested at the highest level and came through it.

To decide that Liston could do that at World level would include elevating lesser fighters into men they never were and inventing excuses about his age or why he quit in World title fights. That's not to say Liston was not a great fighter. I think Sonny was a super talent, a mighty force to be reckoned but his worth must be based on deeds in the ring.

 

He destroyed Patterson twice, Ingo wouldn't go near him ,and he lost to Ali twice when he was past his prime,he was actually giving Ali a pretty good go in their first fight ,would Marciano have beaten Ali when he was whatever age
Sonny was?

Leading up to his reign he beat ,Williams,Folley,Valdes,Machen,DeJohn,Harris,King ,Besmanoff,Bethea

and ,as an aging fighter.Rush,Rischer,Johnson,Lincoln,Clark,Wepner.

Lets not pretend he didn't have a decent resume!

 

Listons shoulder was not paralyzed. He was throwing jabs at Ali the round previously.

Regarding your other "comments" you have no idea what you are talking about. Boxing 101 which is a masters degree class for you.

 

He did have a decent resume I agree.

Did he have a decent resume when things did not go his way against Leading fighters?

I have found a link for you about the four men who baffled liston by Morton shanks. dated 1964.

http://www.si.com/vault/1964/02//10/608210/the-four-who-baffled-liston

Also a very good insight from Ingo about Liston when Sonny was in his prime dated 1963. He was not afraid of Liston. It makes no sense to say so after reading this.

http://www.si.com/vault/1963/08/13/598006/ingemar-says-liston-is-too-slow

 

First of all Frazier was not Marciano nor was Liston the same guy as Foreman. Second of all Frazier had lost his long range game after TFOTC. He could not land at range on Foreman yet he did land at range on Ali. It was not the same Frazier that Ali fought that Foreman met. Joe stopped punching on the way in because his eyesight was shot. So all George had to do was draw a line in the canvas and know Joe could not reach him beyond that point. He hit Joe as he walked in or pushed him back to where Joe couldn't reach him. It was target practice.

 

Marciano was cut...blinded for 4 rounds...and floored for the first time in his career in his title winning fight against JJW in 1952...
He had his nose split open to the BONE in his 2nd fight with Ezzard Charles in 1954...Marciano pleaded to the ref to let the fight continue...he won by a KO and kept the title.

Liston...as champion...QUIT WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL against Cassius Clay in Miami in 1964...he was also..."ahem"....KO'd by Ali up in Maine with the
'Phantom Punch" in hr rematch in May 1965. Marciano wins on heart alone!!!

 

The paper calculation has to be that Liston wins, but it is always at the back of my mind that Marciano might get through on sheer viciousness.

 

This 100%

I think Liston wins but seeing Rocky gutting it out and taking a late round stoppage wouldn't be a huge upset (as it was vs Layne incidentally)

 

Liston fought to the finish in a fight in which he sustained a broken jaw, he also fought and won with a broken nose. Johannson was offered one million dollars to fight Liston ,he turned it down.

 

Prime Walcott,Charles,Louis,Moore ,never faced Marciano!