Rocky Marciano vs Sonny Liston

So you think Liston having a 30 pound size advantage is not a factor. But Fury having a 30 pound size advantage is a factor, even though that's less percentage which is a point you earier made?

Had Rocky boxed till the age Liston did, be very well might have been knocked out by a top contender also.

Fury follows no stranglehold. He has beaten Wlad, Chisora, Cunningham and Johnson, that is it. He would be 50/50 with Povetkin who is far more proven.

 

Liston was finished when he fought Martin yet still dropped him, tore his retina and ended his career.. 10 years earlier he would have beaten Martin about as fast as he dispatched Patterson.

 

Of course it was a factor over most of the fighters Liston fought. You keep saying 30 pounds like that's how much bigger he was than Rocky. Is it 30 pounds? It's more like 15 to 23lb by my calculation and two inches in height. It's no more than Rocky gave away beating Joe Louis who was at least as good as Ray Mercer or Trevor Berbick at that time.

But Bert Whitehurst fought very competitively with a prime liston giving away the kind of weight Rocky would and he was not a great fighter. Nor was Marshal. Foley was said to have battered Sonny across the ring in the second round of their fight. Yes he beat those guys but I think this offers scope for smaller men who were greater. Would I pick Mike Tyson to beat Tyson Fury? Yes I would. Would I give Povetkin a realistic chance against Fury yes I would.

Rocky did not box as old as Liston but Liston had some preserving breaks from boxing. It's not like Sonny had the most punishing career is it? He went to prison and had to start his career over from scratch again in 1958, by 1961 he was down to two fights a year. From 62 to 1966 he had one fight a year. In the last two years of Sony's career he had more fights but it was a low level outside of elite class and had been that way since 1965. He looked good during most of it too. Even losing.

All fighters get beat as they get old. Rocky would have been no different I am certain.

Fury as champion is a superheavyweight link in the chain that has a stranglehold on the heavyweight championship that has lasted for 18 years.

 

I agree that Liston was good in that fight. He still had more to offer I am sure. He beat Wepner who was a live fighter in his last fight too. Martin was tough enough to emulate what Whitehurst did losing to a prime Liston. I'm not as certain Leotis gets blown away watching the Whitehurst fights are you?

 

Absolutely right!:good

 

You've seen the second Whitehurst fight in which Whitehurst gets knocked right out of the ring?

 

Liston was an inch and half taller. Marciano's best weight was about 185lbs Liston's about 212lbs that's 27lbs by my calculation.Whitehurst was 13lbs ligher than Liston in their first fight.

 

Whitehurst was 6' tall and weighed 190lbs he had 37 fights under his belt when he fought the 17 fight Liston.
17 fight Marciano's next opponent was 5'9" 174lbs 20 fight,Harry Haft .

 

Perhaps, but I would say that said stranglehold looks a bit more precarious now!

 

liston's feet looked clumsy in those days but he was quicker on than his detractors say.
his jab looked like a pile driver and I thought he looked like he did have an 84" reach

 

With the exception of Joe Louis,I'd make Liston favourite against any heavy champ who came before him.

 

Me too.:good

 

So now you're conceding that Povetkin does have a realistic chance of winning the crown?

The argument against SHW fighters is that they aren't necessarily great, they're just big and the old adage that a great small man beats a good big man would ring true. And more than that it did ring true for everyone bar Wlad who style might have seen him disqualified more often than not in the classical days.

With Liston and Rocky we have two great fighters but one is a lot bigger. It wouldn't be an upset if Rocky beat anyone in history but I would be pleasantly surprised here.

But again you need context, which I've shown with averages from loads of rankings now.