Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston.

How many of these guys were heavier than Sonny Liston?

Tony Anderson was was in Sonny Listons corner for Seven years, including, I might add, the second fight with Marshall.

 

When I mentioned contemporary accounts, a book written 50 years after the event wasn't what I had in mind.

In fairness though, the book's account may be accurate. If Liston tripped over his feet and was given a count, that would explain why Marshall proudly claims a knockdown which was instantly forgotten by everyone else.

 

Did Liston fight anyone the same size as him who was as good a fighter as Charles, Moore or Walcott?

 

Did Liston fight anyone the same size as him who was as good a fighter as Charles, Moore or Walcott?

yes Muhammad Ali. where are you going with this?

I am not convinced Liston even beat a guy who could have knocked out the 1951 version of Joe Louis.

 

You don't need to know where I'm going with this. It is a conversation between me and another poster. If you're so bothered look over the dialogue and try to extrapolate from there.

 

Obviously Liston was not famous until about 1958 so just about all of his fights before his 1956 imprisonment would have went down as totally forgotten had he never returned to boxing.

Why is everyone so defensive about Sonny being knocked down and taking a count from a 174lb fighter? it does not detract from Listons six minutes of glory in world title fights between 1962 and 1964.

If Marciano took a count from a 140lb fighter before he was famous it would not detract from what his career went to represent in my eyes. This obsession with weight again, why must a fighter have to be a certain size to cause a knockdown?

If a fighter gets knocked down it just meant he was not ready for that punch. He did not see it coming. What is wrong with that? You can't go into the rain and not get wet. especially if he gets up and wins, improves then later becomes World champion!

Tony Anderson could have denied there was no knockdown. There is no film or surviving report of that insignificant fight. instead he disagreed with the refs decision to give Sonny a count.

 

He disagreed with the ref's decision to give Sonny a count... in other words, he denied that there was a knockdown. As he says in AS Young's 1963 biography of Liston: "Sonny was no more knocked down by Marty Marshall than you are knocked down."

 

Even in saying that Anderson is saying the ref officially still scored a knockdown. Marshall says Sonny took an eight count.

 

Did he carry the bucket because Willie Reddish and Joe Polino were the main men.lol
I listed some names that were good opponents and decent sized heavyweights,this was in response to this.

"Moore, Charles and Walcott were all the size of Rocky when they fought.

How many men did Liston fight his own size? No one of that quality."

DeJohn 202lbs
Carter195lbs
Folley198.5lbs
Wiliams 215.5lbs
Valdes211lbs
Machen 196lbs
Lincoln 209,5lbs
Harris 195lbs
Zech 226lbs
How many heavyweights of ANY quality who weren't 36years old ,did Marciano fight who weighed over 200lbs?

 

two things, one how many of these guys heavier than Sonny? Two, Would any of these guys knock out 1951 version of Joe Louis?

what outshines the weight and the age of these fighters is not their age or weight but the rating and stature they had as winning world class operators the night Rocky fought them.

nobody ever says Carnera would be a better fighter if he was even heavier.

nobody says an unranked fighter deserves a shot over a ranked older fighter.

yes they were decent and good. But very few of them have crushing wins worthy of much.

 

Willie Reddish did not work Sonny's corner until 1959. Since his retirement from boxing Reddish had been driving a truck. He was most likely Truck driving when Sonny fought Marshall such was the nature that Reddish was plucked from obscurity to train Sonny. where as Tony Anderson had been Sonny's main trainer until that point. He was no bucket boy.

Pollino was initially Sonny's cuts man but later "acted" as Sonny's manager during the 1967 Sweden tour. It is said that it was Pollino who confessed to Jack McKinney that he was the one who applied stuff onto Sonny's gloves in the first Ali fight.

 

Hagler got knocked down by Roldan too. Hey, the ref scored a knockdown. What does this say about Haglers chin? Roldan was never knocked down the likes of Hearns and Nunn.

 

Why does it matter so much if Roldan was attributed a knockdown over Hagler? Roldan lost that fight. same with Marshall. He lost that fight too.

At least the Roldan fight was filmed. Liston v Marshall was not.

Marshall was happy to admit he was knocked down multiple times by Liston and he insisted he decked Sonny with a right over Listons jab. Sonny's trainer did not dispute there was a count.

 

Reddish was in Liston's corner for all his major fights. Was Anderson ? NO!
Here is Liston's CV.

Managers: Jack Nilon, Joe (Pep) Barone, Eddie Polino, George Katz, Frank Mitchell, Dick Sadler
Trainers: Willie Reddish, Dick Sadler, Johnny Tocco
Cut Men: Joe Polino, Milt Bailey
Any mention of Anderson there ?

" most likely " " It is said" ,more speculative bull sh*t.

 

Well it matters because you are trying to build some sort of Haters Shrine over the chance Liston may have visited the canvas against Marshall. Talk about making mountains out of molehills.

You are making a fool of yourself on numerous accounts -

1. It's light years from proven Liston even visited the canvas.

2. If he did it may not have even been a legitimate KD.

3. At the end of the day it means next to zilch for reasons already explained to you by Mac.

SRL got dropped by Kevin Howard and Holmes was heavily dropped by Snipes among hundreds of other examples.