Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston.

Tony Anderson was a veteran boxing coach. He worked Sonny's corner for seven years. It's well documented.

Reddish came in 1958, in time for Sonny's more important fights.

Why Do you still think Reddish was training Sonny for Marshall?.

 

exactly. It does not detract from a great fighter (like Sonny) when he also took a count.

 

Absolutely, no shame in suffering a flash KD to the greatest - Muhammad Ali.

 

Where did I say he was? For which important Liston fights was Anderson in the corner?

 

From where I'm sitting you been beat all ends up in this debate,from your comparison between a green novice and a reigning heavyweight champion, to you producing that pile of crap by Mort Sharnik and grandly saying everything you need to know is in here lol ,and topped off with an unsubstantiated kd that you have no proof actually happened.Its beyond ludicrous!

 

Actually all I have done on this particular thread is reply to the more outlandish claims of how easily Sonny knocks out Marciano because he was knocked down by a Lightheavyweight Moore.

I am sorry if this required evidence of claims that Sonny was also decked by a Lightheavyweight too.

 

I agree. No shame in a flash knockdown if the fight continues. KO round one does not look good though does it?

perhaps Sonny could have got up and made a go of it but the officials and Ali acting the goat in not going to the neutral corner robbed us of all of that.

I really don't understand all this fuss about not wanting to accept a knockdown in an insignificant fight that Sonny won easily. is it because Marshall was not very big?

Sonny went on to become a memorable champion.

 

Prime Rocky beats prime Liston. Never got the Liston love. He took the belt fro arguably the weakest linear champ with more than a couple defense ever, and only successfully defended once, against the same guy. Sure he beat a few top contenders before that, but his resume really doesn't compare with Rocky's.

 

You've said it yourself, control was lost of that fight and all sorts of silliness prevailed.

I think the only fuss accepting the KD is that this particular forum (on the whole) is big on setting aside the BS and digging up the facts. Regarding the Marshall KD i have read all sorts of contradictory stories. They range from, it didn't happen, it was an incorrectly called slip, it was a 1 second flask KD, it was an 8 second KD. You read it was a right hand over the jab, then you read it was a right to the body then a hook to the head. With such a diverse range of content and what seems to be zero agreed upon ground it becomes a very murky affair.

Liston himself said after the Ali KD it was the first time he'd ever been down. Marshall disagree's.

 

If you want to talk about weakest champs, let's discuss the guy who took 5 attempts to get the crown, a guy who fought a former lightheavy champ 3 times and finally got a good punch in, a guy so long in the tooth that he promptly retired upon the return of losing his title.

Patterson was not only the youngest to get the title but remained in contention for a decade after losing it.

 

I didn't say Liston ko's Marciano easily ,and you haven't produced proof that Marshall knocked Liston down.
The dishonest comparison between a novice heavyweight fighting with a broken jaw and a reigning heavyweight champion was a blatant attempt at spin,I know it ,you know it!
This leaves you with the man counting ten over you.

 

Patterson reigned as either champion or a top ten contender for
56,57,58,59, 60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,71,72.
That's 14 years!
If he was a weak champion the other contenders during that period must have necessarily been weak too!

 

i dont get this paranoia over Liston taking a count in an insignificant fight early in his career before he was a headliner. that he got off the floor to win is a good thing isnt it?

larry holmes was decked in an early fight. theres no film. he got up and won. ali was decked by Sonny Banks. that was filmed, nobody minds. these were early fights. they got up and won.

there is no film of dempsey getting knocked out by jim flyn. no film of schmeling getting knocked out by Larry gains. there are different accounts of these fights because they were not filmed. schmeling says it was a cut eye. gains says it was a KO.

 

No paranoia, simply no proof! Holmes was knocked down by Kevin Isaacs, Ali by by Banks ,both are well documented and in Box rec.
There is no documentation of Marshall knocking down Liston and it is not mentioned in Box rec !

You're the one pursuing this ,we are just refuting it because of a complete absence of evidence that it actually happened!

 

there is no mention on boxrec of the knockdown of Agramante by Joe Louis in 1951 yet film shows it happened. the count Sonny recieved made it into books and interviews with people who were there. anderson and marshal.