Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston.

If Liston could not KO Marciano in the first 6 rounds, Marciano would come home on a wet sail and KO Liston when he tired.

 

Anderson was replaced as a corner man, find a reference to him in Liston's CV ? Marshall was the opponent , two less objective sources could not be found!
BTW.

• This was the second fight between Louis and Agramonte in three months. Louis defeated Agramonte by a ten-round unanimous decision on February 7 in Miami, Florida. [1]

• Louis entered this fight as a 10-1 betting favorite. [2]

• Agramonte was knocked down for a nine-count in the second round. [3

Oops!!!!Lol

 

there must be a thousand details of unfilmed fights taken as fact with even less evidence than there is of a Liston count in the second marshall fight. nobody would question it. stuff just makes it into boxing lore.

i dont know what is so hard to believe or why it matters one jot since it never became an issue until Sonny became note worthy.

why would marshall be so embarasing as to make it up that "it was in the papers"? how else do we know marshall was knocked down himself in that fight as many times as he says he was?

do we also only know that much about marshalls knockdowns because of what marty says? if we do, without a contemporary report, aside from the recorded result all that we know of that fight comes from the same source (marshall). if that is the case why only trust what he says against himself? he was pretty adamant he put Sonny down snd took a count. rather than dispute a knockdown at all Sonnys corner chose only to dispute the decision of a count.

seems there is no reason to doubt a count then?

 

Marshall's knockdowns are documented onBox rec Liston's mythical one is not!
I don't know how much longer you are going to continue this farce but I'm getting pretty tired of it.
You totally ignore facts and corrections that are documented and jump onto another half arsed band wagon. In a different tangent.No point talking to a closed mind.

 

Have ringside reports of the Liston-Marshall fights been shown yet on this thread ?
I thought the Sports Illustrated thing seemed quite credible but I was perhaps being too trusting.
Boxrec doesn't give any source for its comments on KDs in the 2nd fight.

 

perhaps the source is the Marshall interviews from the liston books?

 

This is an exerpt from an article by Nick Bond from a year ago.I'm not familiar with him or his work.

"Sonny will tell you that the only time he saw something funny in the fight game, it cost him a fight.
“I was fighting Marty Marshall and I knocked him down. When he got up, he ran at me barking like a dog. He was going woof-woof-woof, and I couldn’t help laughing. While I was laughing he belted me a good one and broke my jaw”
Sonny fought the last six rounds with his mouth hanging open and he finally cornered Marshall in the dying seconds of the last round. A murderous left hook ripped into the belly and lifted the veteran in the ropes.
Marty took one look at Sonny’s face and stepped right through the ropes and onto the ring apron! The referee started the count but the bell ended the fight and Marshall had the decision."

 

"Coulda...Woulda...Shoulda."...Marciano had the crap beat out if him by JJW in 1952....floored for the first time time in his career...blinded by a solvent that got into his eyes....behind on all scorecards....he throws the best right hand ever and wins the title in the 13th. As HWT Champion of the world in 1964...Sonny QUITS while sitting on his stool against the light hitting Cassius Clay...and gives away what used to be...the biggest prize in sports. Sorry folks....there was no QUIT in Marciano.
He would out gut Liston in this fight! As champion...head to head...Marciano would out last Sonny. Shades of Leotis Martin!!!

 

Not sure what to make of that.
But what about contemporary reports of the 2nd Liston-Marshall fight ? Do we have any ?

 

a

If we take Liston's birthdate as 1930,[ far from certain,] he was a few days of of 40 when Martin beat him.
Wonder how Rocky would have fared against Martin at 40?

Ali sure stopped a lot of monsters for a guy who was a " light hitter".

You discount the possibility that Liston might stop Marciano on a tko?

 

"Martin decked Liston in their second fight and Sonny admitted Marshal "almost had him out" in the seventh round of their third fight." Source Choklab!

This content is protected

 

This is not a contemporary report on the first fight.

I can't believe you can acuse me of latching onto unproven stuff when you post this "anecdote".

the details in this piece make for entertaining reading but is at odds with the Detroit Free press ringside report quoted in the Sports Illustrated article.
The 1964 S.I article does mention the "often circulated" story that Sonny's jaw only broke because he was laughing and it says "it's generally accepted-but not by the people who saw the fight, and certainly not by Marty Marshall".It then goes to reproduce much of the fight report of this early fight for the still developing Liston, a difficult report to trace since it was not a big fight, and in it, no mention of this laughing incident at all.

Dont you think it's likely a reporter would put something like that in his report if it actually happened? One fighter "barking like a dog" and another getting hit whist "laughing"? The Detroit Free Press makes no mention of Sonny scoring a knockdown in that first fight either..It Just seems like a bit of a tall tale, light hearted anecdote from Sonny.

Until another report of the fight can be reproduced that says otherwise I dont think it sensible to conclude there is any truth in the unreported laughing or barking or Marshall getting knocked down before winning on points.

 

I posted it and stated I am not familiar with Bond or his work.I haven't endorsed it in any way.All you have done is posted a load of absolute twaddle fromTex Maule and that bull**** about Sonny's problems with fighters .You quoted a cornerman named Tony Anderson as being in Liston's corner for seven years NOW PROVIDE A SOURCE FOR THAT! And while you're at it find a mention of him in Liston's camp!
Do you know you've got some f*cking nerve .I've ripped your argument to shreds on this thread and you haven't even acknowledged when you've been corrected.
No wonder you get up McGrain's nose with your sidestepping circular trolling , you 've certainly got up mine now!
What a dishonest ,spurious load of claptrap you've posted.Absolute shite!

 

The book by Rob Steen on Sonny Liston appears to use 1962 interviews from The Detroit Free Press as his source for the second Liston v Marshall fight. It appears the Liston v Marshall serries was of no interest to anybody until Sonny was World Champion.

however in the book, Sonny's trainer for seven years Tony Anderson, (Willie Redish was not yet involved) who worked Sonny's corner that night disputed the count Sonny got. Marshall says he himself was decked several times, hurt his ear and took a real beating but says that was after he first decked Sonny with a right over Listons jab.

He says "but I can't understand why he insists he was never down. I remember every little thing a out it. I wish it never happened. It was the forth round. I knew I had to stay away from him. He drags that right hand. He carries it too low. He came in with his left and I crossed my right to his jaw. He went down. I dont know if he was down for an eight count because he needed it, or because the rules require it, but he was down"
Page 55

 

Key word being "appears". I would require a contemporary ringside report,why are there not any out there?