Rocky Marciano vs the 80s heavyweights.

The intellectual contortions that Marcianists are willing to perform upon reality never cease to amaze me.

You realize that the same Rex Layne who Marciano "ruined" went on to beat the Charles that was, according to some, "still prime"… Has it ever occurred to anyone that Rex Layne just wasn't that good?

Moore was hardly finished as a fighter. He knew the window had closed on his heavyweight aspirations because the division had gotten stronger and younger. He still had a nice stay as light heavy champ and gave us some exciting matches at his natural class. He was a great light heavy… just not a great heavy.

Those guys were in the 30's, as you say, but 70-100 fights into a grueling, not carefully constructed, career that was largely contended on the feast or famine level. A lot different than the carefully groomed champs of today who are seen as long term investments.

 

It's not easy but he finds a way to beat most of them. He wouldn't beat Holmes, Tyson, or Holyfield though.

 

Layne was considered to be the heir apparent to the throne, another Jack Dempsey as Nat Fleischer called him,Layne was 34-1-1 and beat the man he lost and drew to, Marciano destroyed that Layne (confidence wise its happens with one punch KO's) but he was still capable of some decent fights after but lost his fire.

Ezzard was active but like I said he won like 11 out of 13 fights leading up to Marciano losing 2 close ones (Harold Johnson disputed and Valdez who would not rematch him) and he won the rematch with Layne dropping him 3X among his other wins in that 11 were Jimmy Bivins,Cesar Brion,Bernie Reynolds,Billy Gilliam (who beat Valdes),Bob Satterfield, Coley Wallace.......all top contenders not a bad run for an old man of 32-33

 

Archie Moore had to jump through hoops to get Marciano into the ring and yes he was a great heavyweight because he beat the #1 and #2 HEAVYWEIGHT contenders to get that shot. Later, after the Marciano fight Archie even recorded simular results against the same heavyweight opponents that Sonny Liston was fighting! Archie even knocked out a guy who beat the guy Sonny lost to, so no, Archie was a good heavyweight in his own right even after Marciano. when he fought Rocky it was actually during the pinnacle of his career.

 

100 fights sounds like a lot of fights because it was a lot of fights but it has to be taken into context of the war years and fight circuits that existed then.

A world class fighter could tick over taking easy fights from the club circuit most of the time so long as he took a couple of fights a year with a name fighter. Even when name fighters fought each other with titles frozen and no TV exposure these "show downs" could often be friendly affairs to provide the same main event in a couple of towns. Like a touring act. Obviously in the bigger fight towns this was not the case but nobody went flat out every fight. Simple entertainment.

They needed to stay busy and they all understood this. Archie Moore fell out with Jimmy Bivins because he felt there was no need for him to hurt a guy on that circuit with nothing at stake. It created a friction between the two because there was an unwritten rule and understanding about this. Hurt fighters could not fight every week and everyone needed oppobents. There was clearly a lot of holding back going on in the insignificant matches out of town.

So by today's measure these are a lot of fights but it is not the whole story. Take Ezzard Charles who did fight an awful lot of competative fights in that era. He spent three years recovering from his earlier career as a middleweight when he went in the army and that was as long as he had been active as a fighter. Yet everyone wants to include that first career that he involuntary retired (and recovered) from on his record as proof as miles on his clock!

 

I see you got tired of typing the rest of the names... I understand buddy and know what you meant

 

Yes, becaue 5 foot nothing, slow footed, slow handed 185 pound heavies ruled the 1980's...

Still holding my breath to another physical freak like Marciano arrive on the scene and take down the pretenders in the division... Oh, wait, the guy picking up my garbage looks like he fits the bill.

 

Spoon=bigger than Moore but employed the same cross armed defense that Marciano rendered useless with his chaotic offensive flurries. Would be a hard close fight if Spoon is in shape.

Thomas=roughly same height and reach as old Joe Louis. Quicker but not as smart and far more erratic in the ring. Would likely get caught and finished like he did against Tyson.

Dokes=Would brawl with Maricano, has the size, but not the stamina or power. I see Dokes betting broke down late like the Holyfield fight. Great fight.

Weaver=Would brawl with Marciano, has the stamina and power, but doesn't have the durability. Another great fight while it lasts.

Berbick=Just solid at everything, but I think you need some outstanding qualities to beat Marciano. Rocky takes longer than Tyson but eventually gets him out.

Gerry Coney=Great power with his left hook but dumb and erratic in the ring with questionable stamina, I don't see him being anything but a big lanky target for Marciano.

Bruno=Awful stamina and of questionable mental toughness, prone to freeze ups. Powerful but cautious. I don't think he has the attributes to beat even a great small man, like Marciano.

Coetzee=see the Weaver loss.

Tony Tucker=SD win over 5'11 70" former cruiser Orlin Norris. Norris may have deserved it. Was outjabbed by 5'10.5" Mike Tyson. Great survivor but not a great winner. Lasts the distance but loses on points.

Bonecrusher Smith=He hugs his way to the final bell and loses on points. see the Tyson loss.

 

Very plausible. Good post.:good

 

If you just want me to type them out for buddy I will, no need to get snippy with me

 

The heavyweights that came after Rocky Marciano were not better technically than the men Marciano beat. They were bigger but not as fast or as experienced. A lot of twenty fight contenders contested (and won) alphabet belts in the 1980s. I don't think anyone can be that certain about Marciano being out of his depth. He was an unusual specimen.

 

Short, small (190lbs) heavyweight, slow, with slightly better than junior welterweight Kostya Tsyzu length reach (68" versus 67") ... almost tyrannosaurus ... or is that tyrannosaurus-ish?

Possessing short arms and short legs leaves mostly torso to be hit. Built like a catcher there is nothing so difficult for larger men (even in a declining sport) than to have to try and punch such a naturally elusive target

Lots of sport examples (since Rock's era) in which that highly desired and impressive combination of small with slow has worked to produce excellence and quality athletic achievement ...

Forget all that "speed kills" and "power = force times speed" stuff


Because boxing is "different" ... logical rules as evidenced in other sports are simply inapplicable

Athleticism is dispensable .... after all .. "you don't play boxing" ...


right

 

You forgot the part where he has the balance of new-born fawn…

But don't bother. Marciano was a physical freak of nature, never to be duplicated...

 

:nut

 

No, cocaine addicts with fat hanging over their trunks did.

That is clearly a big improvement!