Rocky marciano vs the future champions

Two of his best fully realized performances and arguable wins against top heavyweights is a big "aside."

That's an over simplification. The issue is not how Norris boxed his entire career, but how he fought against bigger men at heavyweight. And the manner he approached the Tucker, Golota, Page..fights was not drastically dissimilar from Marciano, which shouldn't be surprising, he was a 5'9" man with short arms actively trying to defeat taller boxers. He's going to bob and weave under punches and try to score with loops from mid range and mix it up inside.

RING had him rated high as #4 by the time of the Lewis fight if I'm not mistaken. So Tucker is representative of the quality of the time, fair or not, he was a fixture and player. So Norris in the eyes of most, beat a guy that would be rated 5 shortly thereafter, that's a success of it's time and place.

But these rare instances as you put it are exactly what was specified and related to the argument. How Norris approached bigger men in contrast to Marciano.

Miller wasn't a good heavy, he was a middling cruiser weight as you put it. Why post that video? It just seems sour grapes on your part.

Vitali is at least a bigger heavyweight so that kind of fits, even if Norris didn't show up to fight.

 

1. Golata's best performances by most people's reckoning were against Bowe. And Norris lost to Andrew anyway.

2. Norris didn't just slug against those guys the way that you're trying to claim he did. He also did a fair amount of boxing which is something Marciano didn't. Orlin was also a guy who could move around pretty well at over 200 - something Rocky never showed us he could do..In two of those bouts he lost decisions while in another he was facing a guy who had been retired for two years and had lost to everyone and their brother... And this was what? THREE instances in SEVENTY fights?

3. Putting Tony Tucker in the ratings was an effort by King to regain control of the heavyweight division. Tony Took over two years off after losing to Tyson then came back and put together a string of wins over mostly mediocrities. McCall and Norris were the only wins of note he had during that time frame and Oliver was still a nobody while Orlin was sliding.

4. As mentioned several times Norris was dissimilar to Rocky in a number of ways.. He was a guy who spent the vast majority of his career over 200 lbs, and the fights you provided were against past prime opponents where he won some and lost some.. I don't see the hoopla.

5. No.. Not sour grapes. It was more relevant than your referencing a two year retired Greg Page. Nate and Orlin both weighed more than Rocky did on average in that fight and Miller wasn't very good anyway but Norris still got KTFO.

6. Funny how you over emphasize the hell out of fights that you feel make your case while dismissively brush off the ones that don't. Can I also point out that Norris was beaten by Bert Cooper and shut out by an aging Tubbs? If you think that Rocky's performance against Golata would be similar to Norris's then would the same hold true against those opponents?

 

Marciano was not 5'11", naughty naughty Mongoose.

 

He's claiming that there was only a 1" height difference between Orlin Norris and Evander Holyfield.

 

Lol look at your post I replied to grumpy. No substance to go off.

 

The win over 37 year old Joe Louis was still a win over a genuine #1 contender.

Nobody ever bothers to watch Louis in the Cesar Brion rematch. Even that version was better than Trevor Berbick or Ken Norton.

 

He makes it up as he goes along.He cannot ever be wrong it's an impossibility. Get on his sh*t list and he will try and get you booted!

 

1) I don't know who "most people" are but they are wrong there. Golota mentally checked out and got DQed against two rough looking versions of Bowe. I see a better case for Byrd and Ruiz, fights he performed well in from bell to bell.

2) Norris didn't just slug it out anymore than Maricano just slugged it out. By boxing you mean using the jab and boxing from range, Norris did use the jab more than Maricano but not enough to write it off as a completely dissimilar style.

3) The argument proposed was a theoretical one, an example of a man of Maricano's dimensions switching between cruiser and heavy t in the modern era.

4)I've addressed this issue in post#181

5)I'm aware and my feelings can be found n Post #181

see response 2)

6) Yes, Norris was inconsistent and had a bad night against Miller and won a rematch eventually. But wouldn't an example of Norris doing this "boxing" thing against a heavyweight that Maricano didn't do according to you be more...of value to your argument?

So you are saying Norris is so bad..he lost to Miller? I don't know what you are going for other than sour grapes. Give me something to work with.

You can't seem to make up your mind what you are trying to argue with the Vitali and Miller fights, all I can do is acknowledge Norris' inconsistency in losing to a cruiser he was expected to beat and refusing to show up for Vitali.

I suspect even a 190 pound Marciano would likely stop Golota or force him to quit. Norris lacked fire power at any weight.

 

You make remarks like Marciano was a bigger puncher than Lewis and Wlad and expect to be taken seriously?

 

Me? I most certainly did not.

If you are frustrated by my responses and have to resort to this nonsense, I'm going to have to discontinue.

I will only argue against the things I actually said.


"Marciano debuted at 192 if I'm not mistaken and if we are going to keep bringing up Holyfield's height as evidence of superior weight gaining ability, he's about 1.5 inch taller than Norris."

Marciano is the subject of the sentence. I was referring to his height advantage over Norris. I further emphasized this in the follow up post.

Maricano's listed height 5'11" Norris listed height 5'9.5"

 

Dude its on page 12. And no I didn't fabricate it...

The Kentucky Cobra said: ↑
Marciano debuted at 192 if I'm not mistaken and if we are going to keep bringing up Holyfield's height as evidence of superior weight gaining ability, he's about 1.5 inch taller than Norris.

 

"Marciano debuted at 192 if I'm not mistaken and if we are going to keep bringing up Holyfield's height as evidence of superior weight gaining ability, he's about 1.5 inch taller than Norris."

Marciano is the subject of the sentence. I was referring to his height advantage over Norris. I further emphasized this in the follow up post #175.

Maricano's listed height 5'11" Norris listed height 5'9.5"

 

Yes.
If Golovkin punches harder than guys like Povetkin, Rocky punches harder than Lewis and Wlad.

And it's obvious by the way he was dominating his division with a crazy KO rate, doing them in spectacular fashion. You can see how fighters physically react to getting hit by Rock.

Rockys KOs were picturesque.

 

Okay well I didn't get the meaning behind that.. It basically reads that Holy 6'2"1/2 is only 1.5" taller than Norris who is 5'9"1/2 ( a five inch difference. )

 

Norris beat Tony Tucker every bit as much as Mike Tyson did, only he did not get the decision in their first fight. Tucker went right on to challenge Lennox Lewis on the strength of that bad decision. That fight should go down as Norris beating a quality rated heavyweight and that's how one of the judges saw it.

Norris defended the NABf heavyweight title 8 times and beat Tucker, Page, Oliver McCall, snipes and Jesse Ferguson as a heavyweight. The NABF champion usually make top ten rankings and the Anual Ring ratings bares this out.

Orlin retired back in the cruiser weight ranks. He weighed as low as 187lb. Yet he weighed as high as 256.