Rocky marciano vs the future champions

Every little bit counts. If Norris' debut of 7 pounds heavier is a big deal we might as well not cheat Rocky out of two pounds.

 

Add another 15-20lb and it all of a sudden becomes impossible for Marciano.....

 

Orlin Norris was not 200-220 lb. he was 187-230lb. He actually scaled much higher. Without modern "help" Norris might not have reached 200lb. The thing is Norris was as good at two weight classes meeting the same level in both divisions. And He was able to yoyo between divisions. He weighed what ever he wanted based on each assignment.

Why couldn't a better fighter compete at his level within two weight classes? It doesn't seem logical to rule it out.

 

Not at all, I don't think anyone has claimed Marciano would dominate the division in the modern era. No matter what he more than likely wouldn't even fight at HW because he would be a small HW no matter how much he bulked up.

 

Marciano did not have access to what it took for men naturally no bigger than he was to compete above 200lb their entire careers because he fought in th 1950s. That is a reasonable answer.

 

To regularly compete against modern heavies, Rocky would have to gain weight.

And I think it would actually help his stamina, given he could hold his own better in wrestling matches. It would be draining to have heavier men laying on him all the time.

Rocky even did this a little in 50s as I've pointed out, coming in heavier against Wilson, Shkor, and Simmons. Dropping back to 186 for Lowry rematch inbetween as he would have to be chasing a smaller guy around.

If Rocky was facing a line up of physical 200 plus pound fighters, I think you would see him more consistently come in over 190.

 

The closest thing to Marciano the division has seen recently, as a full time heavy, is Ruslan Chagaev. A skilled lefty, more skilled than Marciano, 7 more inches in reach, 2 more inches in height. Super tough guy who had a great amateur career. I think we get a good idea of Marciano's ceiling in modern times by looking at Chag.

 

This isn't just about what they weighed at the time Of their debuts though. Norris spent the bulk of his career at or above 200. He was a kid around 20 years old when he weighed 199 for maybe five months and his first few fights. He would weigh under 200 again years later when he purposely dropped weight to fight at cruiser and was Still bigger than Marciano. Rocky never weighed 200 and was only around the 190 range for maybe 3 fights in 50 pro bouts. Bottom line is he was never within the modern day heavyweight range. Could he have moved into that realm and still been effective ? Possibly. But we never saw it happen

 

Lotta hypocrisy with the people slating Marciano's chances but saying Ali would beat anyone. Ali turned pro, what, 5 years after Marciano retired? Why does size and progress work against Marciano and not Ali? If anything, Rocky was better positioned to cope with progress than Ali. Rocky was never the bigger fighter. He relied on power, not size. Ali relied on size and speed. And historically, power and size matter alot more than speed for hw success, and we know Ali would no longer have size. Rocky may still have had power.

For the record, while I think Ali beats Rocky h2h, neither one would have a chance against a top level modern SHW like AJ.

 

Yes and his achievements and abilities should be relegated to the 1950s.

 

I don't think Norris needed " modern help" to weigh 200. He was 20 years old when he debuted at 199. Five months into his career he was regularly fighting at or above 200 and stayed there for most of his career with the exception of a brief period where he lost weight to move DOWN to fight at cruiser temporarily. I think it was more unnatural for him to fight at 187-195 than it was for him to fight above 200. It's not unreasonable to think that Orlin Norris was a naturally bigger man than Rocky Marciano was

 

Chag had a very close fight with a Ruiz back to his older style.

I wonder how Ruiz could have done against Marciano.
Those uppercuts were mean.

 

Chag is a hard one to gauge.

I thought he was the **** back in the day.

I'm not sure if I was actually posting here by then or just commenting on the front page articles, but I was quite a big believer in Chag and really felt he had the best chance of beating Wlad.

But then he failed those medical tests and it's hard to say what that took out of him. By the time he fought Pov two years later he was certified way past his best.

Still though, if beating Skelton, Ruiz and Valuev represents the ceiling, it's not a bad ceiling to aim for.

Wlad was always a step to far, we know that now.

But if he fought Pov in 08 it could have been a different fight indeed.

 

And I am not saying that Rocky would fall flat on his face, just that he would be losing some fights. He could also pull the rabbit out of the hat on occasion when he wasn't favored. In the end, it's a lot easier to fight as a super heavy than as a small heavy in a division that is unlimited. You have a much smaller margin of error being the latter than you do being the former.