Rocky marciano vs the future champions

Because Ali's size and speed would presumably make it much, much easier for him to punch modern SHWs without being punched too often in return, compared to a Marciano.

 

That and the size gap between a guy who's 6'3" 212 lbs and one who's 6'7" 240 isn't as great as it would be between a man who's 5'10" 185 and the guy who's 6'7" 240.

 

1)Why do you keep calling it "cherry picking", the whole point was to compare them when their weights were closet, not portray Orlin Norris' career as something it wasn't.

2)The Miller fight doesn't help anybody you just seem to want to bring it up in every post to slant Norris, and you can't even seem to figure out why, Originally you pulled the fight into the argument as a smart ass response because you didn't like me using the Tucker and Golota fights to show your "Norris boxed bigger men" argument to be invalid. However, you don't want to admit to being jaded, and have since been struggling to bend the Miller fight into some sort of point that just isn't happening.

see 1)

This has been covered like 100 times.

 

1. Then why the hell put so much stock in the Golata and Tucker performances when he was competing at weights that Marciano never even came close to ? Or if you think that referencing the all but FOUR fights where Norris was in the 180's range somehow bolsters your argument then run with it.

2. Wow. That's some pretty crafty extrapolating on your part.. but no. I only brought up the Miller fight to illustrate that for every favorable performance that you can pick out, there are ones that don't fit the agenda.

3. We'll leave 3 alone.

4. Yes we have. You seem to think that because a 230 lbs Norris who is dissimilar to Marciano in several ways gave golata fits that Marciano would somehow do the same Despite:

A) never facing that type of opponent

B) never fighting anywhere near close to 230.

C) having noticeable stylistic differences

D) you not taking into account that both Golata and Norris were past it and that the whole fight in the grand scheme of things would mean Fvckall even if Marciano hypothetically COULD make 230 and be effective.....

.....phew.....

 

I disagree but it's a fair opinion and I could be wrong.

The difference is Rocky doesn't slip one punch, and sit around to slip more punches just to get his opponent to miss.
He's more like Louis. Usually, as soon as they slip 1 punch, they counter attack.
But Marciano did use a lot of subtle head movement when standing toe to toe that I think gets overlooked.

My angle here is other guys saying that Toney put on all this weight and succeeded because he had better head movement than Rocky. And that Rocky couldn't do the same thing, because he has worse head movement.
Are you kidding me? It's a terrible and incredibly lazy conclusion.

Some people don't want the truth. You can tell because they don't make adjustments to their stances when their logic comes under indefensible scrutiny. Mcvey is usually good about this, but he's especially stubborn about Rocky lol.

Toney:
160lb to 250lb.
A-OK because he was cagey and had head movement.

Rocky:
Starts at 180lb.
Cannot go past 200 because he would no longer be good.

Lol.

 

Are you suggesting that Marciano was as defensively adept as Toney? Do you think that Marciano slipped and avoided punches as consistently and effectively as Toney? Which took more flush punches against his top opponents?

 

Read the difference in their slips in my last post.
Rocky wasn't a defensive fighter like Toney.
I don't think he was better than Toney defensively just like Toney wasn't better than Rocky offensively.

 

Magoo,

Everything goes back to page 11, where you seemed to lose the plot and have built presumptions upon presumptions until you are now arguing against your own presumptions instead of the actual arguments.

These fights were brought up by me specifically to counter a claim you made.

See:

Page 11: Post# 158

The reason Norris was brought into the discussion was for that very reason.

See Page 11: Post #152

The Miller upset in no way counters what I posted....wait for it...page 11: Post #158

It was a sour grapes post not unlike Dino the Duck obsessing over the Tubbs knockout in the Corrie Sanders thread.

No. I don't think the Rock would do the same as Norris. I would favor Marciano at 190 to send Golota into a self destructive fit.

A) First time for everything.
B) I don't think Maricano needs the weight here. 190-193, will be just fine.
C) Disagree as stated. Page 11..post.....#158
D) I do not believe Golota was past it. I gave my thoughts on that.

 

Cool. I've seen a great deal of Marciano-related revisionism in this forum over the past year or so, so I just wanted to check.

 

Last year, some of by favorite posters often used a Goldman quote from when he met an untrained Rocky for the first time to describe him as a prime boxer.

 

Maybe some things got lost in translation.. good debate.

 

5'9" and 200lb if you check most BMI charts is considered an unhealthy weight. In some of the more generous charts 184lb is considered the absolute maximum for a 5'9" man in his late 30s. A 5'9" 20 year old should be no more than 174lb.

Even making allowances for exceptions to a rule, before the modern era, it is unusual for old time top athletes to fall outside of these kinds of charts.

For a short fighter it seems only a deliberate effort to create artificial mass could maintain that kind of weight for that height (and increase it further) whilst training and running like a full time athlete. Even If it were natural the weight would go only in one direction rather than up and down.

Athletes are simply trained and developed differently now. Bodybuilding is now an accepted dimension to Modern training.

 

All I've ever said is Marciano would be too small for the class modern heavyweights and no less an expert than Emmanuel Steward agreed with me.
You've twice made the statement this week that Marciano was a bigger puncher than Wlad and Lewis and you're talking about people not wanting the truth ? You and the word logic should not be left in the same room together.

 

Looking for the exit?lol

 

The Stewart testimonial is a big one.
On the same token, the two best HWs in history of the sport gave Rocky glowing reviews.

Out of all the opponents who were bigger, the same size, or smaller than him, I don't think Lewis ever starched an opponent out has he?
Wlad knocked Chambers fully out, an incredible KO.

We have 10 fight films of Rocky.
He starched 2 opponents in those 10 fights. Layne, and Walcott.

Layne and Walcott got knocked out worse than any opponent that Lewis, Klitschko faced collectively.
Vingo had to be carried out on a stretcher.