Rocky marciano vs the future champions

If you ever wanted to look at the trend you would calculate the product moment coefficient or the spearman's rank to see how strong the trend is. For me the trend of a bigger man winning is not strong enough to say it is a prerequisite due to the large percentage of times it isn't the case.

Lines will always be drawn on how see fights occuring. Hagler never moved to LHW, does that mean he'd never beat a LHW? No it just means it requires a leap of faith.

 

Yes and MMR jabs cause Autism.

 

Not sure big man just edges it out:

Ezzard Charles vs Joe Walcott
Joe Louis vs Ezzard Charles
Braddock vs Louis-only 1/4 pound difference
Bear vs Braddock
Carnera vs Baer
Sharkey vs Carnera
Schmeling vs Sharkey
Dempsey vs Tunney
Willard vs Dempsey
Johnson vs Willard
Burns vs Johnson
Hart vs Burns
Fitzsimmons vs Jeffries
Corbett vs Fitzsimmons
Sullivan vs Corbett

Pre-Marciano, only 6 instances of the heavier man winning the lineal Championship.

Marciano moving forward 11/24 rate 45%
Pre-Marciano 6/15 rate 40%
Not much difference really.
And overall 17/39 its 43% of the time.

I think weight difference just hasn't produced a strong trend, I wander if age will be more telling. How often the more youthful challenger prevails in the lineal title bouts.

 

However size has always played a part in the shape of the division.

Fitz lost to a heavier man Jeffries, Burns lost to a heavier man Johnson, Johnson lost to a heavier man Willard, Schmelling lost to a heavier man Sharkey, Sharkey lost to a heavier man Carnera, Braddock lost to a heavier man Louis, Charles lost to a heavier man Walcott, Patterson lost to a heavier man Ingo, Patterson lost to a heavier man Liston, Frazier lost to a heavier man Foreman, Spinks lost to a heavier man Ali, Tyson lost to a heavier man Douglas, Holyfield lost to a heavier man Bowe, Moorer lost to a heavier man Foreman, Briggs lost to a heavier man Lewis, Rahman lost to a heavier man Lewis, Klitschko lost to a heavier man Fury.

That's a quite long list going back to the start of boxing. Every so often an anomaly comes along with more skill than size but looking at that you'd say that's the minority right?

Corbett was lighter than Sullivan, Fitz was lighter Corbett, Burns was lighter than Hart, Dempsey was lighter than Willard, Tunney was lighter than Dempsey, Braddock was lighter than Baer, Marciano was lighter than Walcott, Patterson was lighter than Ingo, Ali was lighter than Liston, Ali was lighter than Foreman, Spinks was lighter than Ali, Holyfield was lighter than Douglas, Holyfield was lighter than Bowe, Briggs was lighter than Foreman, Rahman was lighter than Lewis.

Actually it's 17-15 in terms of the split.

What does that tell us? Nothing new. Size is important but so is skill. In HW if you can use your size you're at an advantage.

Are we ever gonna see a 190 pound champ again? Never because we have a 200 limit on the CW division. Are we ever gonna a see a 220 champ again? Wilder was 219 when he won his belt and he has a realistic chance of being the next true champion.

The division has got bigger but you over react to things, Wlad dominated a decade with his jab and grab routine, no other SHW in history has done that. Fury beat him by outboxing him from range, Brewster beat him by absorbing a hellacious beating before landing his money maker. I am thinking more and more it's Wlad that's the anomaly in this.

Hell, the most recent HW champion was sat on his arse by a former CW contender.

 

I have shown my numbers and cited all matches, you missed a few. Out of 39 lineal title exchanges, the winner was the heavier man only 17 times. That's 17 to 22. Either way, there isn't any strong trends.

Not sure it tells us anything other than weight advantage doesn't seem to be a significant factor in determining the outcome of a Championship bout. I think age will produce a more lopsided result.

Yes, the cruiser division is also more lucrative than it's ever been in terms of overall opportunity while Wlad held a monopoly on the titles. Cruiser Belt Holders like Marco Huck have made as much if not more money over the course of their career than the average HW contender.

Yes, looking at my list....before Wlad vs Fury. We had a 15 year gap since the last in ring lineal title exchange.

 

I only included strict lineal exchanges, CBA going through to see if I missed any though. No strong trend in terms of size, I agree. Size is a factor but not the determining factor.

A man can make a name for himself at cruiser and then test himself at HW, that's what I imagine most previous champs would have done tbh.

 

Not all but many of today's cruisers are 205-215 pound men in the ring. To jump to HW is to simply not cut water weight before a weigh in. And if I'm not mistake I think Johnathan Banks was near 220 in the Adamek fight at cruiser.

And today's light heavies like Hopkins, Kovalev, Ward, Stevenson are the size of yesterday's cruisers...180-190. Even crazier, Canelo was rumored to be near 180 in the Cotto fight below the MW limit. Strange times.

[url]http://www.trbimg.com/img-56515546/turbine/la-sp-sn-cotto-vs-alvarez-live-coverage-updates-20151121[/url]

 

I'm still not sold on the idea if fight night weight being comparable.

Chavez in the ring at 190 after rehydration is not comparable to same day weigh in fighters being 190 imo.

 

Why not? Pounds are pounds.

Same day weigh in would gain a little back but nothing like this 20-30 pound stuff we see today.

Chavez Jr and Canelo would be forced to compete with cruisers or cut 10-15 real pounds in camp. That would produce some drastically different results.

Holyfield was a 187 pound cruiser, drop him in today's divison he's giving up lots of weight, fighting 200-220 pound men.

 

Baer was 210.25lbs Braddock 194lbs.Tunney was 0.5lbs lighter than Dempsey.Mike Spinks was lighter than Holmes I can't see how you can draw any conclusions based on a few pounds either way here.

 

You can't draw any, that's the point.

 

I don't think it's that simple, just a hunch I have but I don't see it myself.

 

Ugh, having all kinds of issues with site today.

 

People calling Rocky slow and unskilled is not a programming error unfortunately.

 

I have to disagree. Just about all of those guys who lost to heavier men lost because the heavier guy was a better fighter. The amount of guys who lost in title fights to smaller men is just as high if not higher.